Airline pay and Obama

[Getburned]

Fact: we are going through and will go through one of the worst economic downturns in our lifetime. Clinton oversaw the creation of over 20 million jobs. What about Bush? Bush could end up with an actual loss of Jobs. We had a budget surplus under Clinton, something I thought conservatives cared about, under Bush record deficits, Bush has almost doubled our national debt, when just 8 years prior we were paying that debt down. There are to many things to list, we have seen more corporations fall because of serious corruption, Enron, Tyco, Worldcom, Arthur Anderson, Quest, Adelphia, etc. All under Bush, not to mention the numerous no bid contracts under his administration. So much for the Free market; I would have thought conservatives would at least want competition allowed so other companies could bid on these contracts. One more thing, no one pays their full income taxes, there are so many write offs, its hard to keep up with them all.

 

[inside0ut]

People know Clinton rode the tech bubble up, right?

And the amount of money that was thrown around during that time period and the boom of the internet in creating jobs?

And the subsequent pop and fall of tech at the end of his term/beginning of Bushes and the effect it had on the economy?

People remember that, right?

 

[BillH]

I just saw this one, and I've gotta comment on it. Before the 90s, no one was really making new GA aircraft b/c of the liability insurance and insane lawsuits that basically found the manufacturers liable for everything under the sun. Then the General Aviation Revitalization Act was signed. Guess who signed that one? Yeah, a Democrat. Placed an 18 year moratorium on manufacturer liabilities, so Cessna and The New Piper got to rolling. So, if you're flying an light piston aircraft built post-1994, you can partially thank Bill Clinton.

No no No, I will thank the Republican House of Reps.
Bill Clinton is a Lawyer, most democrats are lawyers, it is not in their interest to make legislation that restricts what lawyers can get away with.

 

[BillH]

People know Clinton rode the tech bubble up, right?

And the amount of money that was thrown around during that time period and the boom of the internet in creating jobs?

And the subsequent pop and fall of tech at the end of his term/beginning of Bushes and the effect it had on the economy?

People remember that, right?

Obviously not, and Clinton helped kill it by going after Microsoft. I remember clearly how the stocks went down and down day after day when that happened.

 

[jtrain609]

CLINTON going after Microsoft?

You mean, the Department of Justice going after Microsoft, an orginization I would like to think would have done so reguardless of who was in office?

Microsoft had what? Like a 90% lock on the desktop PC market? If that's not a monopoly that destroys competition, I don't know what is.

Do you remember what they did to Netscape, or are you just talking to talk?

 

[L-16B]

CLINTON going after Microsoft?

You mean, the Department of Justice going after Microsoft, an orginization I would like to think would have done so reguardless of who was in office?

Microsoft had what? Like a 90% lock on the desktop PC market? If that's not a monopoly that destroys competition, I don't know what is.

Do you remember what they did to Netscape, or are you just talking to talk?

Whats netscape?

 

[derg]

I wondered why I wanted to stab myself in the eye with a chopstick during dinner this evening.... THIS THREAD! anic:

 

[jtrain609]

Lav?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

People know Clinton rode the tech bubble up, right?

And the amount of money that was thrown around during that time period and the boom of the internet in creating jobs?

And the subsequent pop and fall of tech at the end of his term/beginning of Bushes and the effect it had on the economy?

People remember that, right?

Okay.... so we're adding something new.... the President "rode" the tech bubble up..... well.... didn't Bush ride the housing Bubble up???? at least for a bit.... it happened to burst within his time.

No no No, I will thank the Republican House of Reps.
Bill Clinton is a Lawyer, most democrats are lawyers, it is not in their interest to make legislation that restricts what lawyers can get away with.

Nevermind that you would actually have an argument if he vetoed it and Congress overturned the veto. But that didn't happen, did it? So, Clinton certainly wasn't an obstacle in creating that piece of legislation. So why can you not thank the President? He didn't waste valuable government time by not signing it....

Obviously not, and Clinton helped kill it by going after Microsoft. I remember clearly how the stocks went down and down day after day when that happened.

I have not paid for one single P.o.S. Microsoft product and I'm proud of it. Firefox, Linux, et. al. are much much better, and more accessible to you thanks to the DOJ busting M$ and their crap software.

Apple=overpriced
Microshaft=buggy as all get out
Linux=gold!!!

P.S. this is typed from a Vista machine.... hold on.... lemme reboot.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I'm convinced that BillH is nothing more than a high school student who listens to too much Rush Limbaugh.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Well I'm convinced he suffers from the same issue as far leftists do..... it doesn't matter what good someone has done, it can't possibly be their doing because their views don't coincide with one another. We truly need to look beyond a persons "tag" of (D) or (R) and start voting for the candidate, not the party. I think I'm going to re-register as independent so I can wreak havoc in both party primaries.

 

[ladder360]

Fact: we are going through and will go through one of the worst economic downturns in our lifetime. Clinton oversaw the creation of over 20 million jobs. What about Bush? Bush could end up with an actual loss of Jobs. We had a budget surplus under Clinton, something I thought conservatives cared about, under Bush record deficits, Bush has almost doubled our national debt, when just 8 years prior we were paying that debt down. There are to many things to list, we have seen more corporations fall because of serious corruption, Enron, Tyco, Worldcom, Arthur Anderson, Quest, Adelphia, etc. All under Bush, not to mention the numerous no bid contracts under his administration. So much for the Free market; I would have thought conservatives would at least want competition allowed so other companies could bid on these contracts. One more thing, no one pays their full income taxes, there are so many write offs, its hard to keep up with them all.

I've been staying out of all this, somewhat enjoying it all for the entertainment factor. However, I do get a little out of joint when hear someone try to bring this all up.

The pigs at the trough of the companies you listed were in power and corrupting on Clinton's watch. Also, perhaps you should do a little more research about the economic state of things prior to Bush taking office guy.

I tend to agree with kellwolf on the point of "I've heard nearly as much doom and gloom since the election was over as I did during the election. It's gotten old, and I'm more or less done with it. Neither side knows what's going to happen, so just shut the hell up."

 

[Getburned]

The pigs at the trough of the companies you listed were in power and corrupting on Clinton's watch. Also, perhaps you should do a little more research about the economic state of things prior to Bush taking office guy.

Quite Familiar guy There is a huge difference between The state of the economy now, and 8 years ago, its not even close. Glad Election is over as well. Down in FL, every other commercial was political.

 

[ladder360]

Well I'm convinced he suffers from the same issue as far leftists do..... it doesn't matter what good someone has done, it can't possibly be their doing because their views don't coincide with one another. We truly need to look beyond a persons "tag" of (D) or (R) and start voting for the candidate, not the party. I think I'm going to re-register as independent so I can wreak havoc in both party primaries.

:yeahthat: Well said Cencal!

 

[SpiceWeasel]

:yeahthat: Well said Cencal!

I am going to make an admission on the forum here that might get a bit of flame but I'm willing to take it. I wanted Obama to be President. However, when it came right down to it, I abstained from voting. Why? Because I didn't feel that I had done enough research to make an educated decision on who the best candidate would be for President. Yes, I could have done the research, I could have laid my personal issues aside (relocating during the election season) and studied up on it, but I didn't. So, since I didn't have a well-rounded background on each candidate, I felt the best move would not to be to "vote in the blind". To me, that is too high-school.

 

[ladder360]

Quite Familiar guy There is a huge difference between The state of the economy now, and 8 years ago, its not even close. Glad Election is over as well. Down in FL, every other commercial was political.

I would agree there there is a huge difference. Economically, Obama has a much bigger problem to deal with in the immediate future than Bush did. However, the mortgage debacle is a chief contributor to our current situation. A very valid argument can be made that the policies leading to the mortgage mess were instituted under the Clinton admin.

 

[skydog]

Wealth is created by entrepeneurs, business people, and those who innovate, work hard, and take risks. Wealth is not created by taking it from one person and giving it to another, which is the essence of liberal democratic policy making.

Redistributing of wealth, via confiscatory tax policies and an expanded welfare state, destroys the incentive for acheivement. What is the point of innovation, work and risk if the fruits of your labors are taken away and given to someone else the government deems less fortunate?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be an American safety net, but the safety net has become a hammock by the continued growth and expansion of welfare programs. There's not much incentive for the poor to work and contribute when they can do better collecting a government check, and there is not much incentive to work and do better when the government is taking one third of the fruits of your labors off the top.

Lower taxes. Allow people to keep more of the money they earn, and you will unleash an economic boom that will be beneficial for all.

 

[surreal1221]

And yet this country has - over the past 60 years - seen the largest wealth distribution from the working class to the non-working class in this country. Salaries and wages of low to middle class wage earners have stayed relatively flat, while executive and management salaries have tripled and some even seeing a ten time increase in salaries when compared to comparable positions during the 1940's, 50's, and 60's. You telling me THEY deserve it more, while the low and middle class wage earners are stuck eating #### and watching any increase in productivity rewarded with "Oh, nope no raise this year - sorry"

Give me a break about Redistribution of wealth. It's okay one direction (down up), but heaven forbid it is done from the Up down.

While I do agree welfare programs are ABUSED, they do serve a purpose. Go after those who abuse it, not the programs.

As far as lowering taxes, what specific taxes would you like to see lowered? Let's start with specifics. It's easy to rant and rave about lower taxes. . .but really. . .

Considering how much the generations that have been running this country prior to mine, I'm not so clueless to think that I want MY KIDS paying for my generation's failed domestic monetary policies.

We are fighting a war, have a huge ass national deficit, and need a balanced budget. Taxes MUST increase to pay for these things. Or, we start chipping away at the programs that are costing a hell of a lot of money (namely Defense).

I'm tired of my parents and grandparents' decisions being charged on MY visa card for ME and my children to pay for.

As far as an incentive to work; how about a minimum wage that when going towards a 40 hour work week pays out more than unemployment? Gee - what an idea.

 

[BajtheJino]

Fact: we are going through and will go through one of the worst economic downturns in our lifetime. Clinton oversaw the creation of over 20 million jobs. What about Bush? Bush could end up with an actual loss of Jobs. We had a budget surplus under Clinton, something I thought conservatives cared about, under Bush record deficits, Bush has almost doubled our national debt, when just 8 years prior we were paying that debt down. There are to many things to list, we have seen more corporations fall because of serious corruption, Enron, Tyco, Worldcom, Arthur Anderson, Quest, Adelphia, etc. All under Bush, not to mention the numerous no bid contracts under his administration. So much for the Free market; I would have thought conservatives would at least want competition allowed so other companies could bid on these contracts. One more thing, no one pays their full income taxes, there are so many write offs, its hard to keep up with them all.

Wait, unemployment in 1994 was 6.5%-the same as it is today-two years into Clintons 1st term. Oh, wait. Thats a bad memory! We're no worse off now than any other recession we've been through. The sickness is the same just different sypmtoms. S&L-More banks closed in one day than we've lost in all of this "crisis". Only this time we have more than 3 media outlets to continuously dump gloom and doom through your idiot box.
What happened in 1994 with the elections? Oh right, a Republican majority and the Contract with America. When Republicans where conservative (the Repubs of today can take a lesson)!
Why don't people understand the President does not set the price of gasoline and the President does not run businesses!
No bid contracts? Who but Haliburton does what they do? Granted corruption is inexcusable but come on.
Politics is based on corruption on some level or another. Why do people get into politics, whether it be city council or being president anyways? POWER! Come on. Are we all that naive? Every President we've had has sucked big time in one way or another. Roosevelt-let the Japs bomb us and denied the Jews asylum before and during WWII. Truman killed 50,000 Americans in Korea because he wouldn't let them win. Eisenhower-well, we got the Interstates...Kennedy started Vietnam and blew the Bay of Pigs. LBJ? We got the Great Society, criminals got more rights than victims and he killed 65,000 in Vietnam in a war he wouldn't let us win (the industrial war complex anyone?) Nixon-well you got Nixon. Carter, Ford? Double digit inflation and price controls. The birth of the bigger car with less gas mileage. Reagan-Well, he didn't know about Iran Contra. Sure. Clinton(lets forget about the 1st Bush, ok?)-we got how many ladies, Whitewater, another impeached President and pardons for sale. GDub-we got a "Republican" who grew up under the wing of Big Government. For what its worth he couldn't do anything without every politician in DC signing off on it. The Dems are just as responsible for our current situations as the Repubs are. Obama will be no different. Why would he rock the boat and upset his potential for ultimate power? He is not a God, just a power hungry man.
When will we learn that both parties are full of dbags and they don't care about us? This government is no longer for us but against us. God Bless the USA or whats left of it.



Who works for minimum wage besides teenagers bagging groceries or frying burgers? Minimum wage is for ENTRY LEVEL POSITIONS. Yes, every 16 year old working after school needs to make a living wage to support their wives and 10 children. When its that bad we should offer free sterilization. Better yet how about Norplant implants for all welfare recipients?

 

[surreal1221]

Of course, but obviously when these people can make more money by abusing a system that is used by millions of people who use it for it's appropriate means that shouldn't mean we should abolish it.

Hell, I'm thankful I had unemployment after I seperated from the military, while I was in school full-time.

As far as the baby-making-machines, don't get me started. It's a slippery slope that quickly becomes eugenics.

But nevertheless, it doesn't get past the fact that many low income individuals abuse the unemployment system because they bring home more on UI than they do working minimum wage. Yeah, entry level. . .tough titties, everyone starts somewhere. Going to crap down their throats because they work an entry level job and are an adult? Come on.