Mr Toad’s Wild Ride

[phill1174]

I still dont get how rolling to the end and then making a 90deg turn saves a significant amount of time vs taking a high speed on the parallel taxiway to the same point in space*

sometime ill do the math but back of the napkin says ‘this is dumb’


*margin of error includes position drift from prepared surface to manhole cover in the weeds

It’s just like the folks who ask for a shortcut en route and it saves 30 seconds at most. It’s more so to make them feel good than anything.

 

[mwflyer]

While this is true, it’s also true that an aircrew shouldn’t ask for a favor, get it approved with a caveat from ATC that the crew agrees to, then proceed to dilly dally on the runway for some unreasonable amount of time, and force a go around. That would not be cool either. Though in this case, it appears they may have rushed themselves.

The crew could have easily declined after the caveat was presented from ATC, with a “Nevermind, we’ll just exit normally”.

I agree. I just don’t see why it ever came down to a “favor.” For some reason, the pilot felt he needed to roll to the end. If I feel that, then I’m rolling to the end. If tower asks me to expedite, I’ll reply that “I’ll make every safe effort to,” or something to that effect.

But I agree that I shouldn’t respond “ok”, if I don’t feel I can safely comply elite tower’s request.

 

[MikeD]

I agree. I just don’t see why it ever came down to a “favor.” For some reason, the pilot felt he needed to roll to the end. If I feel that, then I’m rolling to the end. If tower asks me to expedite, I’ll reply that “I’ll make every safe effort to,” or something to that effect.

But I agree that I shouldn’t respond “ok”, if I don’t feel I can safely comply elite tower’s request.

I think (just my supposition) is that barring some kind of occurrence where stopping becomes an issue, ATC figures that aircraft will be taking some kind of common midfield or downfield runway exits (since all the planes are nearly the same types these days) and generally plans around that for normal ops. I don’t know if they are planning for or expecting all aircraft to possibly roll to the end and take the time doing that, especially when every other plane is using the same few runway exits.

 

[Toobdrvr]

It’s been a while (10+ yrs) since I’ve referenced it, but I believe the AIM says something like “shall exit the runway as soon as practicable”…

I read that as, if you’re going to do anything different, you should coordinate with ATC.

 

[MikeD]

It’s been a while (10+ yrs) since I’ve referenced it, but I believe the AIM says something like “shall exit the runway as soon as practicable”…

I read that as, if you’re going to do anything different, you should coordinate with ATC.

AIM 4-3-21a.

 

[mwflyer]

AIM 4-3-21a.

I stand corrected.

 

[MikeD]

I stand corrected.

I mean, to your point you make, there is a reasonable middle ground. If you have the situational awareness to know that no one is behind you landing or no departures waiting, it’s not unreasonable to, during rollout, simply ask tower to be able to roll to the end. No reason they wouldn’t accommodate that request I wouldn’t think. That way, you’re already generally slowed and under control, and can roll at your leisure to the exit you’re cleared to. With no rushing involved. So I don’t think you were wrong, more of just a matter of how and when you as the pilot makes the request.

 

[mwflyer]

I mean, to your point you make, there is a reasonable middle ground. If you have the situational awareness to know that no one is behind you landing or no departures waiting, it’s not unreasonable to, during rollout, simply ask tower to be able to roll to the end. No reason they wouldn’t accommodate that request I wouldn’t think. That way, you’re already generally slowed and under control, and can roll at your leisure to the exit you’re cleared to. With no rushing involved.

Yeah, and I know you aren’t supposed to linger on the runway unnecessarily just because you can. I just always thought I didn’t need permission.

 

[///AMG]

They were required over here as well up until our most recent update. Now they are just recommended on dry runways (but required if available on anything else).

And @Toobdrvr Gotcha. Maybe a difference between big widebodies and NB? I could see it being pretty important on something with so much mass

 

[SurferLucas]

Wait, auto brakes are required at SJI? Did I read that?

As far as I know on the Guppy, we can use 2/3/Max…no Off or 1.

On the E175 at QX we could go without AB’s, as long as it wasn’t under 6000ft (maybe?).

I’d like if we could go without on the Guppy, but as Derg says…they say ‘fly this way and we’ll give you money’, and I say ‘yes, I like money’

 

[DPApilot]

As far as I know on the Guppy, we can use 2/3/Max…no Off or 1.

On the E175 at QX we could go without AB’s, as long as it wasn’t under 6000ft (maybe?).

I’d like if we could go without on the Guppy, but as Derg says…they say ‘fly this way and we’ll give you money’, and I say ‘yes, I like money’

Condescending, much?

 

[Pilot Fighter]

My small shop, no TR use (besides unlock/idle) required, no autobrake required. However, it’s understood that if anything happens damage-wise or such where use of those would have made a difference and you chose not to use them, then you buy it.

Seems unusually reasonable.

 

[SurferLucas]

Condescending, much?

Practicing for next week when I head down to Addlanna for Charm School…I’ve got an industry reputation to uphold for us

 

[NovemberEcho]

As far as I'm aware, there are no bonuses given out for clearing the runway at a speed which makes the controller happy

Actually….

 

[Boris Badenov]

Actually….

Gulley may be interested in your erotic lederhosen massages, but I was talking cash.

 

[MikeD]

Actually….

Keep it up, and I’ll have you transferred to LGA tower, so you can become a target of the SWA kamikaze force….

 

[form810]

Gulley may be interested in your erotic lederhosen massages, but I was talking cash.

And here I initially read that as erotic lederhosen messages...

My bad.

Just by the buy, do you do a lot of international flights? Have you ever bought one of those massages? I've heard they're pretty, er, kick ass.

 

[JordanD]

Practicing for next week when I head down to Addlanna for Charm School…I’ve got an industry reputation to uphold for us

Servant leader!

 

[form810]

As far as I know on the Guppy, we can use 2/3/Max…no Off or 1.

On the E175 at QX we could go without AB’s, as long as it wasn’t under 6000ft (maybe?).

I’d like if we could go without on the Guppy, but as Derg says…they say ‘fly this way and we’ll give you money’, and I say ‘yes, I like money’

Servant leader!

It's interesting to me how much disdain you airlines types abide in opposition to your employers.

It seems that indeed, in thought, and in action, you actually DO like money. It oft' seems that's ALL you like.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It’s just like the folks who ask for a shortcut en route and it saves 30 seconds at most. It’s more so to make them feel good than anything.

That is significant.



737/320 family. 6,000lbs/hr (let’s just assume, depends on variant, etc).


That’s 100 lbs fuel per minute.



30 seconds is 50 lbs fuel.

6.76 lbs/gallon


That 30 second shortcut saved 7.4 gallons



That is significant. One flight. Now imagine thousands per day, then per month, then per year. I’ll take 30 second savings all day long.