Your the pf- what would you do?

Michael_Espinal

Michael_Espinal

Food Consumer
Your in the 767-300ER, you have 12,569 pounds of fuel, you planed for 30 mins of holding fuel, and you've already held for 10, your on final for TNCM, its imc with the ceiling just above 500' and your doing the VOR Z Rwy 10 approach, the wind is 050@ about 15 gusting 23 you reach minimums when you get shoved to the side so you decide to go around. As you spool your thrusters forward and retrieve your flaps and gears, you loose your number 2 engine in the climb, while your in the climb the imc worsen and the ceiling lowers to 200, forcing TNCM to close, Your the PIC what would you do?
 
Michael_Espinal said:
Your in the 767-300ER, you have 12,569 pounds of fuel, you planed for 30 mins of holding fuel, and you've already held for 10, your on final for TNCM, its imc with the ceiling just above 500' and your doing the VOR Z Rwy 10 approach, the wind is 050@ about 15 gusting 23 you reach minimums when you get shoved to the side so you decide to go around. As you spool your thrusters forward and retrieve your flaps and gears, you loose your number 2 engine in the climb, while your in the climb the imc worsen and the ceiling lowers to 200, forcing TNCM to close, Your the PIC what would you do?
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Go to your alternate.
 
Gonzo said:
Go to your alternate.
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Exactly. With the WX at minimums already, you would have an alternate. However, with the winds 050 @ 15 G 23, you should have enough rudder authority to keep from being blown off the approach. It would take a mighty big gust to do that. Or sloppy flying.
 
Cptnchia said:
Exactly. With the WX at minimums already, you would have an alternate. However, with the winds 050 @ 15 G 23, you should have enough rudder authority to keep from being blown off the approach. It would take a mighty big gust to do that. Or sloppy flying.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure a 767 is going to handle without much problem. The winds were 300 at 23 knots with gusts up to 31 knots when I did my stage check in the Mighty Piper Warrior. Good thing they were using RWY27 or else I'd have exceeded the crosswind maximum.
 
coa787 said:
I did my stage check in the Mighty Piper Warrior. Good thing they were using RWY27 or else I'd have exceeded the crosswind minimums.
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You sure that's a minimum and not just a limitation? Because if it is a limitation it could probably handle a lot more than what it was demonstrated at. :rawk:


As for the, "PF" question. I'd have to say I'd first initiate the go-around, run through all of the memorization flows, checklists, etc. Of course after that i'm sure some cabin crew members would knock on my door and bug me for an explanation. So, at that time I would deploy the oxygen masks to shut everyone up. I would fly to our pre-planned alternate. After the plan is reviewed with my QUALIFIED FO (no PFJ/PFT BS on my line) and everything is under control; I would then tell a crew member to occupy my seat while I grab some coffee, face the cabin for all to see and initiate the, "No pants dance." LOL oh... right... it's an emergency, can't get up...hmm..:king:
 
nocturnalaviator said:
You sure that's a minimum and not just a limitation? Because if it is a limitation it could probably handle a lot more than what it was demonstrated at. :rawk:
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What?! How dare you? I didn't call it the Mighty Piper Warrior for nothing. :)

I meant to say "maximum."
 
coa787 said:
I meant to say "maximum."
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I think he's point was that while it is the max demonstrated, there is no limit. That's just the highest number Piper tested the aircraft at.

Interestingly enough, in the CRJ the max demonstrated crosswind is 27 knots. Most operators use that as simple the max demonstrated and their crews are free to exceed it. Where I'm at, it's actually listed as a limitation, which is kind of nice. Cuts down on Dispatch sending us places we really don't want to go.

As far as the OP's scenario...

As was pointed out, it's going to take a lot more than 23 knot gusts to knock a 76 off the approach. But for the sake of argument let's say a cow wandered out on the runway (and the PIC was a member of PETA) so the plane goes around and blows an engine.

The thing will fly just fine on one so fly the missed and then delegate flying/radio duties and QRH duties. The guy flying let's ATC know what is going on and requests to head to the alternate (which again, as pointed out aready, would be on the release and have fuel allocated for it). The other guy would be trying to restart or secure the engine depending on if it's damaged or not.
 
Michael_Espinal said:
Your in the 767-300ER, you have 12,569 pounds of fuel, you planed for 30 mins of holding fuel, and you've already held for 10, your on final for TNCM, its imc with the ceiling just above 500' and your doing the VOR Z Rwy 10 approach, the wind is 050@ about 15 gusting 23 you reach minimums when you get shoved to the side so you decide to go around. As you spool your thrusters forward and retrieve your flaps and gears, you loose your number 2 engine in the climb, while your in the climb the imc worsen and the ceiling lowers to 200, forcing TNCM to close, Your the PIC what would you do?
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What is min fuel at destination and what is fuel to alternate? Without that info,

First, go to alternate (destination closed and only available app is non-pre)
Second, file a NASA (loosing an engine is an incident)
Third, try to find that engine you 'loosed' (is that like dropping a munitions pod?)
Forth, figure out when they replaced throttles with 'thrusters'
Fifth, schedule a sim session and practice crosswind approaches because skills are woefully lacking
Sixth, get a dictionary and look up 'loose' and 'lose'.

:D
 
Huh... and I just assumed that ERs had thrust vector capability.

I guess I'll stick to my little ol' RJ.
 
BobDDuck said:
I think he's point was that while it is the max demonstrated, there is no limit. That's just the highest number Piper tested the aircraft at.

Interestingly enough, in the CRJ the max demonstrated crosswind is 27 knots. Most operators use that as simple the max demonstrated and their crews are free to exceed it. Where I'm at, it's actually listed as a limitation, which is kind of nice. Cuts down on Dispatch sending us places we really don't want to go.
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Okay, cool. We're still not allowed to exceed it, though. ;)
 
BobDDuck said:
Huh... and I just assumed that ERs had thrust vector capability.

I guess I'll stick to my little ol' RJ.
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You're thinking of the 767-300ER-TV-AB-FBW-W 4.7 model with thrust vectoring, afterburners, fly-by-wire and winglets. Only three sold to an unnamed client who painted them in an air-superiority grey/black scheme.

(actually, I should apologize. It is his first few posts here and not until I reread the post did I recognize the destination as a Microsoft sim airport, St. Marten? )

Just divert and land...
 
Michael_Espinal said:
Your in the 767-300ER, you have 12,569 pounds of fuel, you planed for 30 mins of holding fuel, and you've already held for 10, your on final for TNCM, its imc with the ceiling just above 500' and your doing the VOR Z Rwy 10 approach, the wind is 050@ about 15 gusting 23 you reach minimums when you get shoved to the side so you decide to go around. As you spool your thrusters forward and retrieve your flaps and gears, you loose your number 2 engine in the climb, while your in the climb the imc worsen and the ceiling lowers to 200, forcing TNCM to close, Your the PIC what would you do?
Click to expand...

Turn off the computer and go outside.
 
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