You Can't Make Money Being A Pilot!!!

[Kristie]

I realy appreciate everyones concerns, but I'm not a "Newby" to life! I just asked some questions about the aviation industry. Everyone seems to be giving me a life lesson now. Please keep your answers to the aviation field. I hope I'm not coming across rude or anything, but the "life thing" I've got control of. Thanks

you have to admit though that the two go hand in hand....you may have "control" over it at the moment... but life is not easy when you go from a big paycheck to a small paycheck. making sure that everyone is on the same page is only going to help...

as are the guys who are attempting to give you the "what's up" and make sure you're prepared....

If you really want to fly but don't want to affect family that much, it may just be better to fly on a recreational level because doing a career change will change the entire family lifestyle and it's not always for the better. That's why people are not only commenting on the aviation side but also the lifestyle side.

you mentioned that you have a family and don't want to affect them much...and you mention that you're concerned about the payscale because you don't want to affect your family lifestyle that much...that type of conversation perks up the ears and it's what would probably be considered as a yellow flag as to whether or not you really want to get into this career. at the young age of 30-31, your also not an old fuddy duddy when it comes to "life"either. there's always something to remember....I've learned a ton *more* since i turned 30 and that was almost 9 years ago.

 

[mrivc211]

For the most part, I think I got off very very lucky thus far in my career. Here's what I made solely based on this profession since I started:

2003: flight instructed $22,000
2004: flight instruct till august, start ground school, $31,000.
2005: continued to flight instruct part time, EMB FO, $12,000/$27,000=$39,000
2006: upgraded march 2006, partial flight instruction: $56,000/5,000=$61,000
2007: EMB captain/ started ground school for CRJ captain march 2007. $67,000.
2008: On track for $92,000 working some overtime. some months getting 10 days off, some months 16.

If and when I go to a major it will take me 4-5 years to recover AND make what I used to make here. Which i have no problem with because of the long term potential.

 

[Tiger815]

For the most part, I think I got off very very lucky thus far in my career. Here's what I made solely based on this profession since I started:

2003: flight instructed $22,000
2004: flight instruct till august, start ground school, $31,000.
2005: continued to flight instruct part time, EMB FO, $12,000/$27,000=$39,000
2006: upgraded march 2006, partial flight instruction: $56,000/5,000=$61,000
2007: EMB captain/ started ground school for CRJ captain march 2007. $67,000.
2008: On track for $92,000 working some overtime. some months getting 10 days off, some months 16.

If and when I go to a major it will take me 4-5 years to recover AND make what I used to make here. Which i have no problem with because of the long term potential.

This progression to me would make flying a very attractive profession for someone starting out.

The issue is, it 'aint that cut and dried. If you get bumped off the ladder in 2009, you can't just go get hired somewhere else and have a chance of making close to your '08 salary. In many, if not most, other jobs you can go somewhere else and expect a salary based on your cumulative experience. Not so in the Airlines. That's why there are former Independence Captains with thousands of hours out selling insurance, while guys with 500/50 are in airliner cockpits.

As far as my comment re: making $70K out of school it probably was somewhat overstated, but when I was still in Telco finance I was hiring folks only a couple of years out of school (accounting, computer science or statistics backgrounds) in the high to mid $50's and that was over 10 years ago. Granted I'm in an area with high salaries and a high cost of living to go with it.

 

[mrivc211]

If and IF I were to be hired somewhere else, I might end up number 11001 on the seniority list after a merger. Thats if I don't get furloughed either, or the airline goes under. It's all a dice game.

 

[Goonie]

Am I the only one that is pissed off by "Newbies'" first post? I am tired of people coming to this profession with such low expectations. People wonder why airlines aren't handing out fists full of cash. Answer: because too many chumps come crawling out of the woodwork who only wish to make enough to pay the rent on their mobile home and have enough left over to buy a six pack. Do all the real professional aviators a favor and take that "I don't need to make money" attitude to walmart.

We need to expect more if we are to get more.

Why are you in the profession? To make money? I think you are in it for the wrong reason.

Who are the "real professional aviators"?

enlighten me...

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Why are you in the profession? To make money? I think you are in it for the wrong reason.

Umm, I'm not defending the tone of his posts, but you should be in this profession to make money. I love flying as much as the next guy, but that's not why I do it for a living. I do it for a living to make money, fund a retirement, have a decent QOL, and have good insurance. That's what a job is for. If you just want to have a good time, then go rent a 150 down at the local airport. If you want to have a career, then by all means, enter the profession and fight for a better career.

 

[Sprint100]

Am I the only one that is pissed off by "Newbies'" first post? I am tired of people coming to this profession with such low expectations. People wonder why airlines aren't handing out fists full of cash. Answer: because too many chumps come crawling out of the woodwork who only wish to make enough to pay the rent on their mobile home and have enough left over to buy a six pack. Do all the real professional aviators a favor and take that "I don't need to make money" attitude to walmart.

We need to expect more if we are to get more.

My man, bring down the over-zealous attitude down about 10 levels. Newby had a legit question. Did you even read his post? If so, the context you understood it to be means you read it right after a barfight and ya ready for some mo'.

 

[NEWBY101]

you have to admit though that the two go hand in hand....you may have "control" over it at the moment... but life is not easy when you go from a big paycheck to a small paycheck. making sure that everyone is on the same page is only going to help...

as are the guys who are attempting to give you the "what's up" and make sure you're prepared....

If you really want to fly but don't want to affect family that much, it may just be better to fly on a recreational level because doing a career change will change the entire family lifestyle and it's not always for the better. That's why people are not only commenting on the aviation side but also the lifestyle side.

you mentioned that you have a family and don't want to affect them much...and you mention that you're concerned about the payscale because you don't want to affect your family lifestyle that much...that type of conversation perks up the ears and it's what would probably be considered as a yellow flag as to whether or not you really want to get into this career. at the young age of 30-31, your also not an old fuddy duddy when it comes to "life"either. there's always something to remember....I've learned a ton *more* since i turned 30 and that was almost 9 years ago.

Absolutley, but just because I ask how much can I expect to get paid as a pilot, doesn't mean what do I do with my life if indeed I do get paid less than what I'm getting paid now. The two don't go hand in hand in my opinion, also you don't have to be an old fuddy duddy to know how to manage your money. 40 is also a very young age to be giving out life advice and not that far away from 31, depending on your lifes achievements. Thank you for your commments, but again, I can make my own decisions on whether or not I will put myself in the poor house. I do not want to come across as being rude, but please keep your life lessons to yourselves.

 

[NEWBY101]

For the most part, I think I got off very very lucky thus far in my career. Here's what I made solely based on this profession since I started:

2003: flight instructed $22,000
2004: flight instruct till august, start ground school, $31,000.
2005: continued to flight instruct part time, EMB FO, $12,000/$27,000=$39,000
2006: upgraded march 2006, partial flight instruction: $56,000/5,000=$61,000
2007: EMB captain/ started ground school for CRJ captain march 2007. $67,000.
2008: On track for $92,000 working some overtime. some months getting 10 days off, some months 16.

If and when I go to a major it will take me 4-5 years to recover AND make what I used to make here. Which i have no problem with because of the long term potential.

Good job, I hope to do as well as you! Thank you for your info. Everything helps!

 

[jtrain609]

Because 9 out of 10 potential pilots who hear that will still dump $70k+ to get into the profession. Supply and demand yo. I recently decided not to pursue professional aviation once and for all. Money isn't everything, but I didn't think it was responsible to drag my family through years of "scraping by" just so I could live out a fantasy. That's not what my father taught me about being a responsible husband and father. To each his own, though.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that man. I'll tell ya, the new rumor floating around is that we're done hiring until July. That's 10 months straight of no hiring going on here, and if the economy hiccups in the next year or so you'll see the train on the street and hittin' you up for a letter for grad school! This is a fun job, but it's still a job. I dunno about you, but right now my life revolves around my fiance, skiing and beer. One of these days maybe I'll substitute a kid for beer, bur right now a good porter will do...

 

[Nick]

Beer

One of these days maybe I'll substitute a kid for beer, bur right now a good porter will do...

I watched a set of parents a few rows ahead of me deal with their screaming child and the passengers around them for twelve hours between Japan and the USA earlier today.

My conclusion: stick with the beer.

 

[NEWBY101]

Umm, I'm not defending the tone of his posts, but you should be in this profession to make money. I love flying as much as the next guy, but that's not why I do it for a living. I do it for a living to make money, fund a retirement, have a decent QOL, and have good insurance. That's what a job is for. If you just want to have a good time, then go rent a 150 down at the local airport. If you want to have a career, then by all means, enter the profession and fight for a better career.

Read the post bro, I want to know "IF" I can make money doing it! Not that I want to settle for nothing, but I DO NOT want to get into the business if I can't make some money even though I love flying! Toonces was sperting off at the mouth about nothing! I don't want to make chump change! I want to be able to support my family in a career I love, and having to defend myself every freaking second to you guys is begining to shed a light on the career I might be choosing!

 

[NEWBY101]

Re: Beer

I watched a set of parents a few rows ahead of me deal with their screaming child and the passengers around them for twelve hours between Japan and the USA earlier today.

My conclusion: stick with the beer.

I like you already bro!:nana2:

 

[NEWBY101]

My man, bring down the over-zealous attitude down about 10 levels. Newby had a legit question. Did you even read his post? If so, the context you understood it to be means you read it right after a barfight and ya ready for some mo'.

You da man! Thanks.

 

[NEWBY101]

you have to admit though that the two go hand in hand....you may have "control" over it at the moment... but life is not easy when you go from a big paycheck to a small paycheck. making sure that everyone is on the same page is only going to help...

as are the guys who are attempting to give you the "what's up" and make sure you're prepared....

If you really want to fly but don't want to affect family that much, it may just be better to fly on a recreational level because doing a career change will change the entire family lifestyle and it's not always for the better. That's why people are not only commenting on the aviation side but also the lifestyle side.

you mentioned that you have a family and don't want to affect them much...and you mention that you're concerned about the payscale because you don't want to affect your family lifestyle that much...that type of conversation perks up the ears and it's what would probably be considered as a yellow flag as to whether or not you really want to get into this career. at the young age of 30-31, your also not an old fuddy duddy when it comes to "life"either. there's always something to remember....I've learned a ton *more* since i turned 30 and that was almost 9 years ago.

Kristie you sound like a really nice person and I thank you for the comments, but even being I young man as you implied, I have been in the sales industry for 14 years now, and pay scales jump around year after year depending on the market. I know how to budget my money to prepair for the down times. If I am able to have "control" on our finances, after 4 recession then I think I can handle a few more. All information is good inforormation, I just ask to please tone down the life lessons please! Again I do have respect for you! You have a lot of knowledge in this field, I just think there is a better way to communicate it to a guy like me. Thank you again.

 

[Toonces]

Why are you in the profession? To make money? I think you are in it for the wrong reason.

Who are the "real professional aviators"?

enlighten me...

Yeah pal. I am in this business to make money. That's why it's called a profession. You see I do this thing where I sell my skills for as much money as I possibly can.

I bet if I showed up on the scene of pretty much any profession that was extremely expensive to get into and told my co-workers "I'd do this job for free" I would rightly receive some looks of disdain. Real pros in any field get paid. Everyone else is a hobbyist.

Consider yourself enlightened.

 

[NEWBY101]

Let's hope so. I am guessing this guy is a 18 year old virgin who lives with his parents. Someday he may grow up and want to take a real girl someplace other than Mcdonalds. Pretty hard to do that when you make less than a high school janitor.

Do you have any idea how much a High School Janitor makes???? Big time baby! Big time! $$$$$$$$$$:nana2:


I'm not mad at ya anymore. I'm over it.

 

[SteveC]

Absolutley, but just because I ask how much can I expect to get paid as a pilot, doesn't mean what do I do with my life if indeed I do get paid less than what I'm getting paid now. The two don't go hand in hand in my opinion, also you don't have to be an old fuddy duddy to know how to manage your money. 40 is also a very young age to be giving out life advice and not that far away from 31, depending on your lifes achievements. Thank you for your commments, but again, I can make my own decisions on whether or not I will put myself in the poor house. I do not want to come across as being rude, but please keep your life lessons to yourselves.

Read the post bro, I want to know "IF" I can make money doing it! Not that I want to settle for nothing, but I DO NOT want to get into the business if I can't make some money even though I love flying! Toonces was sperting off at the mouth about nothing! I don't want to make chump change! I want to be able to support my family in a career I love, and having to defend myself every freaking second to you guys is begining to shed a light on the career I might be choosing!

Kristie you sound like a really nice person and I thank you for the comments, but even being I young man as you implied, I have been in the sales industry for 14 years now, and pay scales jump around year after year depending on the market. I know how to budget my money to prepair for the down times. If I am able to have "control" on our finances, after 4 recession then I think I can handle a few more. All information is good inforormation, I just ask to please tone down the life lessons please! Again I do have respect for you! You have a lot of knowledge in this field, I just think there is a better way to communicate it to a guy like me. Thank you again.

Relax just a tad. I think you're reading too much into people's responses that aren't realy intended. It is VERY difficult to read inflection, tone, and intent from the written word, especially when people's writing styles differ so much from their in-real-life personas. My first bit of advice for you is to always give a person the benefit of the doubt when trying to interpret tone and intent. Most people are here because they want to help others, not pick on them.

Secondly, in my personal opinion you really can't seperate "life lessons" from advice on the aviation profession. I speak from experience. I made the change about four years ago, and reduced my salary by well over 50% to do so, and have never been happier. BUT, I'm happier because of the life lessons that I've added to my repertoire, in conjunction with what I've picked up about being a professional pilot. They go hand in hand. The way that my wife and I have handled the changes are much more important in my happiness than what those changes were, you know what I mean?

As far as learning life lessons, I'm of the opinion that you should never quit. The older you get, the more that you realize that experience is a great teacher, and learning from others' experiences is a very valuable tool. Let's see, you've been an "adult" for 12 - 13 years. Kristie has been so for 20+ (almost twice as long), and I was an adult when you were born (close to three times as long). Maybe, just maybe there is something that we can add to what you've already learned. Maybe not. But if you shut us off from even offering info I can guarantee that you won't learn from our experience.

I recommend that you be careful about cherry-picking the answers that you want to hear. I can understand that you might feel defensive about people talking about issues that are not directly aviation related, but you just might be missing some valuable information along the way. At the very least you can end up with people thinking to themselves "I'm not going to bother giving this guy any advice. He won't listen anyway." I can tell you that right now I'm on that fence myself.

Please, just keep in mind that people are here to help, especially Doug and Kristie. Really.

 

[Bumblebee]

Most people are here because they want to help others, not pick on them.

Secondly, in my personal opinion you really can't seperate "life lessons" from advice on the aviation profession. I speak from experience.


As far as learning life lessons, I'm of the opinion that you should never quit. The older you get, the more that you realize that experience is a great teacher, and learning from others' experiences is a very valuable tool. Let's see, you've been an "adult" for 12 - 13 years. Kristie has been so for 20+ (almost twice as long), and I was an adult when you were born (close to three times as long). Maybe, just maybe there is something that we can add to what you've already learned. Maybe not. But if you shut us off from even offering info I can guarantee that you won't learn from our experience.

Please, just keep in mind that people are here to help, especially Doug and Kristie. Really.

I loves me some Steve C <3 <3 <3

I've been an adult for . . . well nevermind but some of my mentors are nearly half my age! I try to soak it all in and take the advice that fits, and just appreciate that some one was willing to spend the time to share the rest.

As Steve mentions, experience is a great teacher. That reminds me of a plaque that was on my kitchen wall from when I was a small child that read,

"Learn from the mistakes of others . . . you won't have enough time to make them all yourself."

Well . . . enough of that.

OK . . .One last thing, some of the people I have met through this site I have become very fond of. As a matter of fact I have had dinner with seven of them over the last few weeks in two different cities. I refer to them as my "internet friends" but my life is enriched by them, and I have learned from each of them, not just about aviation, but about life (and a lot about you kids lingo!).

This place is special.

Welcome to JC and hopefully we will meet you at one of our M and G s or even at the big event in Las Vegas this October.
Dale

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Read the post bro

Take your own advice, "bro." If you look at my post that you quoted, I wasn't talking to you or referring to your original post. I was talking to the guy that said making money isn't what you should be in this profession for. Relax a bit. You're getting somewhat defensive for no reason.