yearly cost of ownership?

[ozone]

Since I am a renter and recent CAP member (for the flying and, of course, the flight suit!); I have begun to wonder what it really costs to own an airplane? I am thinking: gas, insurance, tie down/hanger, depreciation, loan, annual, repairs/surprises, etc. The whole shebang in other words.

Any C172 owners out there have their yearly expenses tallied up?

Any Mooney owners with the same info?

Any piper owners?

Any Diamond owners?

Those are the planes I have thought about, but please add more if you have your own costs/ideas/etc.

 

[Murdoughnut]

My ownership club has a 1981 Skyhawk ... we each pay $125 a month towards annual/parking/insurance and general MX. We pay $70 an hour towards fuel, oil, and engine overhaul.

These aircraft are money pits. Little things are always F'n up with them. We had to replace the alternator on ours two weeks ago. We went through 3 alternators in 7 years on our last aircraft. The big thing seems to be strange wiring issues - like instruments going out, or false sensor indications. The cost to repair these definitely adds up.

Personally, I don't think it's reasonable for one person to own a piston single. We have 15 guys sharing the costs, so our situation is great. Find some partners, that's my advice.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

There are fixed and variable costs. All of them depend on your area and what you will do with the airplane. Let's assume you pay cash for a 70's model C-172 and it is for personal use.

Fixed Costs:

Hangar or Tie Down: 200-500/month for hangar or $30ish for tie down.
Annual Inspection: 1200-2000 for inspection only, YMMV
Insurance: Really depends on a lot of factors. Maybe 1000-2000 a year?

Variable:

Engine Overhaul Fund: $25/hour. Assume 2000 hour TBO and lets say you buy it with 1000 hours. A new engine is around $25k, give or take.
Fuel: 8GPH x $4 = $32/hour.
Oil: $5/hour.
Maintenance: $20/hour.

So $80-$90 per hour plus the associated fixed costs.

 

[killbilly]

Mojo's number pretty much gel with the research I've done.

Would like to point out that experimentals (like Vans, and others) can have significantly reduced ownership/maintenance costs because you can do things yourself and use parts that are not certified by the FAA. Like alternators and things.

 

[BillErvin]

My ownership club has a 1981 Skyhawk ... we each pay $125 a month towards annual/parking/insurance and general MX. We pay $70 an hour towards fuel, oil, and engine overhaul.

These aircraft are money pits. Little things are always F'n up with them. We had to replace the alternator on ours two weeks ago. We went through 3 alternators in 7 years on our last aircraft. The big thing seems to be strange wiring issues - like instruments going out, or false sensor indications. The cost to repair these definitely adds up.

Personally, I don't think it's reasonable for one person to own a piston single. We have 15 guys sharing the costs, so our situation is great. Find some partners, that's my advice.

anic:$22,500 a year for one airplane, fixed costs (parking/hanger & insurance) can't be that much, your mech must have a sweet deal or your bank is raping you on interest. I'd be requesting an audit of your accounts to see where the money is going if your paying that much for a single 172. That or start having maintenance days where members comes in and help in owner assisted annuals and preventive maintenance. If your IA doesn't allow owner assist, find one that will.

Using his costs. If "you" fly it 100 hours a year (most people don't) that works out to about $85.00 per flight hour, 50 hours $100, 25 hours $130 (125 X 12 \ hours flown)+$70hr = hourly cost.

You have to ask, can I rent for less per hour, how much do you fly, what is your mission(do I need or want to have it available to fly immediately), what is the condition of your airplane, fixed costs (hanger/parking/ins/loan payment), and the relationship you have with your A&P all factored into it.

Ownership of an airplane can be expensive on a per hour rate, especially if you don't fly it on a regular basis, cost is relative though, have you checked how much it costs "per hour used" to own a nice boat nowadays.


When I owned my Cherokee 235 my fixed costs (parking/Ins/payment) per year were about 10K, annual (owner assisted) was $300 (less parts) I did my own preventive maintenance,(under supervision of my A&P IA) and I had a relatively low time engine so I figured in about $50 hr for overhaul. My work covered a lot of the fuel/oil costs so that was a little harder to figure.


Currently I own a C150 and live in an airport community with my hanger in my back yard. The airplane is paid for, my partner is an A&P and the IA lives two hangers north of me, so my costs are about $1800 a year (including annual, parts, upgrades and Insurance) Fuel is extra of course

 

[Murdoughnut]

anic:$22,500 a year for one airplane, fixed costs (parking/hanger & insurance) can't be that much, your mech must have a sweet deal or your bank is raping you on interest. I'd be requesting an audit of your accounts to see where the money is going if your paying that much for a single 172. That or start having maintenance days where members comes in and help in owner assisted annuals and preventive maintenance. If your IA doesn't allow owner assist, find one that will.

Using his costs. If "you" fly it 100 hours a year (most people don't) that works out to about $85.00 per flight hour, 50 hours $100, 25 hours $130 (125 X 12 \ hours flown)+$70hr = hourly cost.

You have to ask, can I rent for less per hour, how much do you fly, what is your mission(do I need or want to have it available to fly immediately), what is the condition of your airplane, fixed costs (hanger/parking/ins/loan payment), and the relationship you have with your A&P all factored into it.

Ownership of an airplane can be expensive on a per hour rate, especially if you don't fly it on a regular basis, cost is relative though, have you checked how much it costs "per hour used" to own a nice boat nowadays.


When I owned my Cherokee 235 my fixed costs (parking/Ins/payment) per year were about 10K, annual (owner assisted) was $300 (less parts) I did my own preventive maintenance,(under supervision of my A&P IA) and I had a relatively low time engine so I figured in about $50 hr for overhaul. My work covered a lot of the fuel/oil costs so that was a little harder to figure.


Currently I own a C150 and live in an airport community with my hanger in my back yard. The airplane is paid for, my partner is an A&P and the IA lives two hangers north of me, so my costs are about $1800 a year (including annual, parts, upgrades and Insurance) Fuel is extra of course

Our buy-in is only $1,300. We purchased this a/c back in July for around $75k. We had some money from the insurance pay out on our last a/c, but it wasn't much, so we have pretty big payments. The interest rate actually isn't that bad. I do think we get raped by signature on tie-down fees. We fly around 300-400 hours a year.

That's where I flubbed it - some of that $125 goes to the payment for the plane.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

I have begun to wonder what it really costs to own an airplane? I am thinking: gas, insurance, tie down/hanger, depreciation, loan, annual, repairs/surprises, etc. The whole shebang in other words.

The actual number varies with aircraft model, your location and a few other things. But the direct answer to your question is always the same regardless. How much does it cost? All you've got, plus a little more.

 

[fly22]

http://planequest.com/operationcosts/default.asp



Jtrain introduced me to this site. Pretty good site and accurate too.

 

[BillErvin]

We fly around 300-400 hours a year.

That's about $126 per hour based on everyone's flight time

If you're buying gas from Signature their raping you on that too:banghead: Can't do much about that though.

 

[thehobbit]

Our buy-in is only $1,300. We purchased this a/c back in July for around $75k. We had some money from the insurance pay out on our last a/c, but it wasn't much, so we have pretty big payments. The interest rate actually isn't that bad. I do think we get raped by signature on tie-down fees. We fly around 300-400 hours a year.

That's where I flubbed it - some of that $125 goes to the payment for the plane.

You paid 75k for an 1981 cessna 172? Who was in charge of that decision?:crazy:

 

[Jpax]

http://planequest.com/operationcosts/default.asp



Jtrain introduced me to this site. Pretty good site and accurate too.

Just need to adjust the fuel costs

 

[Murdoughnut]

You paid 75k for an 1981 cessna 172? Who was in charge of that decision?:crazy:

Yeah, but you should see this airplane ... all the bells and whistles... http://www.pinellaspilots.org/plane.htm

 

[OldTownPilot]

75k is about right for a low engine time N or P with a 430 in it, Toss in good P&I and that airplane was priced right.

We've got a 78 N with the 180hp conversion (no GPS) that was done a couple of hundred hours ago. If it was for sale it would get at least 65K. 75k would be about right with a 430.

Sure there are cheaper 172s on the market, but you get what you pay for.

 

[thehobbit]

75k is about right for a low engine time N or P with a 430 in it, Toss in good P&I and that airplane was priced right.

We've got a 78 N with the 180hp conversion (no GPS) that was done a couple of hundred hours ago. If it was for sale it would get at least 65K. 75k would be about right with a 430.

Sure there are cheaper 172s on the market, but you get what you pay for.

From the pics and description, it doesn't have a garmin 430. Although it does have some gear I find 75k to be a little high for what it is.

 

[Fly_Unity]

Fuel x 3 seems to be pretty accurate if you fly actively

 

[OldTownPilot]

From the pics and description, it doesn't have a garmin 430. Although it does have some gear I find 75k to be a little high for what it is.

For that airplane, anything less than 70k includes a trial for theft.

 

[Murdoughnut]

From the pics and description, it doesn't have a garmin 430. Although it does have some gear I find 75k to be a little high for what it is.

The GPS is a 300xl (IFR certified) - with a King 150 color moving map. The interior of this plane is cherry, though. I really like the tuned exhaust - seems to drop engine noise a noticeable amount, and gives her an extra 10-15 true horse power on takeoff. Adds about 5kts to true airspeed. We spent a lot of time searching and fell in love with this airplane.

 

[thehobbit]

The GPS is a 300xl (IFR certified) - with a King 150 color moving map. The interior of this plane is cherry, though. I really like the tuned exhaust - seems to drop engine noise a noticeable amount, and gives her an extra 10-15 true horse power on takeoff. Adds about 5kts to true airspeed. We spent a lot of time searching and fell in love with this airplane.

Hey it's not a personal attack. What ever you guys paid for it is what its worth and when you sell it, what ever you sell it for is also what its worth.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Hey it's not a personal attack. What ever you guys paid for it is what its worth and when you sell it, what ever you sell it for is also what its worth.

Oh no, I didn't take it as such. I just think if you saw this airplane, you'd see what I mean.

 

[Inverted25]

Alot of the fixed cost depend where you live. We have a piper cherokee 140 pa-28-140. Lets start with cost to buy. You can find a cherokee 140 in very good condition anywhere from 25-40k depending on what instrument setup is in it. Here at ashland 3G4 a t-hanger is $125 a month. Insurance for ours runs around $600 a year. Its only insured at 20k and both pilots on insurance plan are CFI. Plane has been paid off for a very long time so that why hull insurance is set so low. The owner of the FBO (tailwinds) is a A&P IA and he does our annual for $750. So are going to point out that not all annuals cost the same but any extra parts besides the normal come out of our maintence fund which I will cover later. This a owner assited annual with us tearing all inspection plates off, taking seats and floor out, etc... Airplane burns around 8gph buring car gas. So lets look at the numbers.

Hanger 125x12= $1500
Insurance 600
Annual 750
Total Fixed Cost= $2850


Gas @8GPH 8x4= 32 per hr (Using last summers car gas at 4 dollars a gallon)
Maintence we put away $10 a hour
So variable cost are $42 a hour

Again people might point out that 10 a hour is low for maintence cost. The plane came with only 300 hours on the engine and we plan to sell it before it reaches 1200 because at that point we will have our homebuilt done. So we dont put money away for a complete engine overhaul since we never plan to have to do one. The ten dollars a hour flying has been more than enough to cover maintence cost since we have owned the plane. We have had it since 1994. And our maintence fund is pretty large now. Lately we have used some of the extra money in there to repaint the plane.

We normally fly the airplane 120 hours a year between us.

120x 42= 5040
Fixed cost 2850
Total cost $7890 a year or 65.75 a hour


Since fall that number has been lower with the lower car gas price. The cherokee 140 has some the lowest entry cost and operating cost for airplanes. It can carry two adults and their luggage easy. It not a 4 seater even though it has 4 seats. You can put 3 adults in there for a short trip to the islands. Anything longer will leave the person in the back seat cramped. It has 50 gallons total fuel allowing you to fly around 650 miles on a tank of gas plus reserves. If you looking for a cheap plane to own this is it. Now if you just looking for a airplane to have fun in and not take trips get a Cessna 140 or some other small taildragger and your cost will be even lower.