WWYD if you discovered you were flying with a flat Earther?

arkavgal said:
You have to wonder why flat earther pilots are so eager to talk about that. I mean it's weird. People who aren't flat earthers probably don't talk about how they are sure the world is a sphere as casual cockpit conversation. Are they wanting validation?
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Has to be validation. Can't imagine they often get it....but those types have a way about them.
 
A150K said:
Has to be validation. Can't imagine they often get it....but those types have a way about them.
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There's a Bizzaro World 'tism to the conspiracy types.

Ever see someone who puts THOUSAND of hours into a train set or Minecraft world, etc that almost NO ONE fully appreciates it on their level? but just a SINGLE person take more than 30 seconds to appreciate it that that compliment lasts them a lifetime.

Same goes for flat earthers, 9/11 inside job, Big Foot hunters, and so on.

Feigning interest is likely the biggest slight you can ever give to them.

"no, yeah, dude, that's tooootally interesting. Please tell me more."
(flat tone showing no excitement, remember, it's the emotion that feeds them)

First round take a few minutes to penetrate those skulls, but after that, they catch on quick.
 
DropTank said:
There's a Bizzaro World 'tism to the conspiracy types.

Ever see someone who puts THOUSAND of hours into a train set or Minecraft world, etc that almost NO ONE fully appreciates it on their level? but just a SINGLE person take more than 30 seconds to appreciate it that that compliment lasts them a lifetime.

Same goes for flat earthers, 9/11 inside job, Big Foot hunters, and so on.

Feigning interest is likely the biggest slight you can ever give to them.

"no, yeah, dude, that's tooootally interesting. Please tell me more."
(flat tone showing no excitement, remember, it's the emotion that feeds them)

First round take a few minutes to penetrate those skulls, but after that, they catch on quick.
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I think that's a poor analogy. A lot of people play Minecraft. There's nothing fringe about it and it doesn't require the acceptance of an alternate narrative. The train in Minecraft is an individual's unique creation. People who believe in conspiracy theories didn't create or propagate something unique. It's very much a "group think" phenomenon or ideology.
 
I'm going to take first available upgrade (and, consequently, years off my life, statistically speaking) in order to get these f'ing mental patients to shut up when I'm around. I don't need the money, but can you put a price on not having to listen to a gibbering lunatic for hours on end? No, no you cannot
 
Boris Badenov said:
I'm going to take first available upgrade (and, consequently, years off my life, statistically speaking) in order to get these f'ing mental patients to shut up when I'm around. I don't need the money, but can you put a price on not having to listen to a gibbering lunatic for hours on end? No, no you cannot
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That's exactly why I gave up being about 25% in the right seat of a widebody.

I've spent a lot of years of my career being a good FO chameleon but it was getting to the point where I really couldn't take it anymore. I feel bad for some of the FOs I fly with now who tell me the same stories that I lived through a few years ago.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I'm going to take first available upgrade (and, consequently, years off my life, statistically speaking) in order to get these f'ing mental patients to shut up when I'm around. I don't need the money, but can you put a price on not having to listen to a gibbering lunatic for hours on end? No, no you cannot
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Does the captain have final authority over conversations or something? You're two professional adults. Shouldn't you have equal control over topics of discussion that are non-work related?
 
I
gliderboy said:
They pretend to believe in this to draw attention to themselves. Perhaps they had an unfortunate upbringing, a mother lacking in maternal instinct, or they're just losers.
Men covet power over all else. Most of us satisfy our need for power through our accomplishments, wealth, knowledge of arcane subjects, physical attractiveness or celebrity. But what's a guy without any of those qualities to do to make people notice him?
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Isn't being an airline pilot considered a significant accomplishment? Most also have a college degree, another significant accomplishment. And while airline pilots probably aren't wealthy, most have a good income. Seems the flat earther pilot meets at least 2 of your criteria.
 
tlove482 said:
Does the captain have final authority over conversations or something? You're two professional adults. Shouldn't you have equal control over topics of discussion that are non-work related?
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First officers should be encouraged to not only speak up about safety issues but inappropriate discussions and behavior.

It took me quite a while to figure it out but when I was being micromanaged I just handed the aircraft back to a captain, politely. I politely explained it was much easier and safer for him to be the PF and fly the way he wanted. Rather than focus on directing the PF like a marionette puppet while being the PM.

Shutting down a conversation by making a remark like “this is an extremely inappropriate thing to talk about on the flight deck. Perhaps we should talk about something else.” Should he encouraged. I’d have zero issues with a follow up remark like “im going to escalate this to HR or we can finish this conversation in front of the CP if you like” is appropriate if the conversation doesn’t change or stop.

Zero first officers should be suffering in silence.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
First officers should be encouraged to not only speak up about safety issues but inappropriate discussions and behavior.

It took me quite a while to figure it out but when I was being micromanaged I just handed the aircraft back to a captain, politely. I politely explained it was much easier and safer for him to be the PF and fly the way he wanted. Rather than focus on directing the PF like a marionette puppet while being the PM.

Shutting down a conversation by making a remark like “this is an extremely inappropriate thing to talk about on the flight deck. Perhaps we should talk about something else.” Should he encouraged. I’d have zero issues with a follow up remark like “im going to escalate this to HR or we can finish this conversation in front of the CP if you like” is appropriate if the conversation doesn’t change or stop.

Zero first officers should be suffering in silence.
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There are different levels of inappropriateness I think.

Anything related to flying/micromanaging... for sure there is a pretty easy path for a (confident) FO to shut things down. I had a 717 CA (who is currently making a name for himself on APC) that would just throw the flaps or gear out for me when he thought I should do it, without saying anything. That lasted one leg and then I never was PF with him again, by choice.

Anything that could be harassment or abuse is pretty easy to shut down. I was FO once and my RO dropped the N word after pontificating about how other races/genders had it so much easier than him (a white male) because they got all these hand outs along the way and he (from a family family of large ranch owners in Texas) had to work for everything. That was an easy one to shut down.

Discussions containing blatant racism or sexism can be easy to stop by an FO if they are comfortable to do so.

What can be more difficult is things the things that aren't totally inappropriate but still things you don't want to talk about. A Captain going on and on (and on) about all the cars and guns they own can be a little frustrating to a first year FO to have to listen to. A guy going on and on about his various conquests... maybe not something somebody is comfortable hearing about. The left to right power gradient, especially in a more old school style cockpit, is a very real thing.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I'm going to take first available upgrade (and, consequently, years off my life, statistically speaking) in order to get these f'ing mental patients to shut up when I'm around. I don't need the money, but can you put a price on not having to listen to a gibbering lunatic for hours on end? No, no you cannot
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It’s worth at least two more bikes or one more weird car that you don’t drive.
 
tlove482 said:
Does the captain have final authority over conversations or something? You're two professional adults. Shouldn't you have equal control over topics of discussion that are non-work related?
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The reality at my shop is that you're A) likely to fly with this particular loon for a lap of the world and B) likely to fly another lap of the world or two with said loon again in the not-too-distant future. Obviously, if the guy (it's always a guy) says something genuinely out-of-bounds (the aforementioned N-word, for example) you call it and shut down the show. But for more picayune insanity the reality is that if you want to maintain CRM you suffer through it. The alternative is having a tense, antagonistic flight deck, and that's bad for everyone.

That's not to say that one needs to encourage it. Silence is an underappreciated way of communicating.

That said, the Captain sets the tone. We've all flown with great Captains and, well, less-than-great Captains, and 100% of the time (in my opinion) being great starts there.
 
BobDDuck said:
There are different levels of inappropriateness I think.

Anything related to flying/micromanaging... for sure there is a pretty easy path for a (confident) FO to shut things down. I had a 717 CA (who is currently making a name for himself on APC) that would just throw the flaps or gear out for me when he thought I should do it, without saying anything. That lasted one leg and then I never was PF with him again, by choice.

Anything that could be harassment or abuse is pretty easy to shut down. I was FO once and my RO dropped the N word after pontificating about how other races/genders had it so much easier than him (a white male) because they got all these hand outs along the way and he (from a family family of large ranch owners in Texas) had to work for everything. That was an easy one to shut down.

Discussions containing blatant racism or sexism can be easy to stop by an FO if they are comfortable to do so.

What can be more difficult is things the things that aren't totally inappropriate but still things you don't want to talk about. A Captain going on and on (and on) about all the cars and guns they own can be a little frustrating to a first year FO to have to listen to. A guy going on and on about his various conquests... maybe not something somebody is comfortable hearing about. The left to right power gradient, especially in a more old school style cockpit, is a very real thing.
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The question was should both parties have an equal weight on the discussion. Not only do I think so but I feel like if a conversation makes someone uncomfortable they should be in their rights to stop it. It is difficult to speak up. Part of being a good captain is fostering an environment where one can speak up about anything.
 
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