D
Write your congressman...
- Thread starter comstsa
- Start date
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
Well, not for everyone. But that is one of the major structural failures of the American aviation "system".
comstsa
Well-Known Member
Oh there's plenty of blame to go around, but you're right...
That's like putting all the blame on the pimp and none for the prostitute. But the fact remains, the 1500 hr rule has brought about more change than any other single factor I can come up with.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Question if passed I'm sure that there will be a compromise. I think the days of the 250 wonder are gone forever.
What if said compromise was 800 hrs tt, and current salaries stay the same. How do you think that would be viewed?
What if said compromise was 800 hrs tt, and current salaries stay the same. How do you think that would be viewed?
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Don't see this; the R-ATP was part of the bill that created the 1500hr rule...
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
What if higher mins are actually having the opposite
Effect
The working class needs to suffer their bad decisions of late. After November my guilt at being a part of the "haves" diminished some.
Effect
The working class needs to suffer their bad decisions of late. After November my guilt at being a part of the "haves" diminished some.
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
I've said it before, its cost of training and lack of financing that is creating a shortage of pilots, not the 1500 rule. 2000-200 used to be the norm for getting the first regional job for $16 an hour and the applicants were plenty.
Never underestimate how much debt people will take on if you allow them.
Never underestimate how much debt people will take on if you allow them.
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
One has nothing to do with the other. Flight hours are regulatory requirements. Salaries are free-market responses.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
So you're saying that salaries should stay the same, if the 1500 hr rule goes away?
BigZ
Well-Known Member
If pilot supply stays the same - yes. Might dip initially, but if the x pilots available per y needed doesn't become 1.5x per y, lower pay situation won't be sustainable since it would lead to 0.7x per y.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
How's 2nd year pay?
Bear
Well-Known Member
what about the other highlights of the rule for a re-look?
https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14838
https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14838
- A requirement for a pilot to have a minimum of 1,000 flight hours as a co-pilot in air carrier operations prior to serving as a captain for a U.S. airline.
- Enhanced training requirements for an ATP certificate, including 50 hours of multi-engine flight experience and completion of a new FAA-approved training program.
- An allowance for pilots with fewer than 1,500 hours of flight time or who have not reached the minimum age of 23 to obtain a "restricted privileges" ATP certificate. A restricted privileges ATP certificate allows a pilot to serve as a co-pilot until he or she obtains the necessary 1,500 hours. The options are:
- Military pilots with 750 hours total time as a pilot;
- Graduates holding a Bachelor's degree with an aviation major with 1,000 hours total time as a pilot;
- Graduates holding an Associate's degree with an aviation major with 1,250 hours;
- Pilots who are at least 21 years old with 1,500 flight hours.
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
I'm saying that whatever laws legislators pass will have nothing to do with salaries paid by employers. There won't be a clause in the legislation saying "airline management shall continue to pay the same salaries." Salaries will respond to whatever changes in pilot supply occur because of a new law.
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
The sooner you learn that "deserve" has nothing to do with it, the better off you will be.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
In my dream world, CFIs are all old, crusty bastards with decades of flying and "there I was" stories.
How's 2nd year pay?
Still not enough.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
To look back at the guys I flew with
Overseas:
- grumpy cropduster turn CFI with aspirations for shiny metal.
Good: got to land on abandoned roads and squeeze back home at 200' AGL while picking up ice (that wasn't in the FAA land). Bad: learned a lot about how your overall attitude affects your career. To the best of my knowledge, he's still CFIing somewhere 12 years.
- supernice weekend pilot/businessman turn hobby CFI with a huge emphasis on safety first approach. He was overdoing it a bit, but I got many good ideas from the guy. One of his former students showed up with a mistress as TS were rolling in, he tried to talk them out of flying, when that didnt work jumped into the right seat last minute. Engine quit on takeoff due to mismanaged fuel, tried to make it over the trees, stall-spin-all-dead.
- another weekend pilot turn CFI, I was his first student. Probably gave the guy a bit of grey hair )) good guy and good CFI. Last i heard he was flying scenic tours somewhere over Nepal.
In the US.
- school was a side business for a charter and management company. Flew with the guy that ran the school and flew the jets. I guess that was the first dosage of "fly it like a professional", even if not discussed much. Ten years later the school isnt there anymore, but he still flies jets for the same company.
- 18 year old kid (I was almost ten years older), third generation pilot, flying from before he could ride a bike and all that. We had some good fun. Caught up couple of years back, he's been in regionals since 18, furloughed at 19, still airlining somewhere, his dad is still captaining at Southwest.
- an insightful no BS guy who saw the airline thing of 2007-2008 for what it was and was working at MRO while CFIing on the weekends. Not sure where hes at now, but best of luck to him whereever he's at.
- a guy who flew his grandpa's 182 to work. I guess gave me the bug of wanting to own a plane )) regional business hasn't been overly kind to him. Last I heard he was at ExpressJet after a couple of lateral moves.
- everyone's gotta have an aviation mentor if they are lucky. Mine is a South-African pilot, used to own a cargo airline over there, has a few hangars filled with toys here, flies 1000-1500 hours a year for personal pleasure and business. Can be very grumpy, lots of "there I was" stories. At this time only does Lancair IV jetprop transitions, but I was fortunate to learn a ton from our flying together - from all of my actual IMC during training to landing at private mountain airports at night to buzzing around in helicopters. Some of it should be filed under "err... lets not do that again", but still, probably learned more from him than rest of the guys combined.
- ERAU five stripe CFI who finally got his butt to a shiny jet after years at ERAU. Good dosage of safe and careful and bu the book to balance out the South African attitude )
- career CFI with north of 40k hrs dual given. That guy made the a CFI, so the good and the bad and the ugly of it - call to complain to him.
Oh, two more. Helicopter CFIs - one Norwegian kid with like 500 hrs total time and a nice older gentleman with 7000 hrs of dual given in a R22.
What i got from the first is but a speck of sand on a beach, which is sad considering we spent about the same time in aircraft as with the second guy.
While not belittling the new guys, the medal does go to the crusty old CFIs who have been in aviation long enough to have the barnacles growing on their butts.
For the new guys - it's all about the attitude. Being in it to learn and give forward is hell of a lot moar better than just building time to move on.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Circa 2000, my PPL CFI flew F-4's in Nam and later F-15C's before retiring. He used to yell and scream expletives at me in the plane all the time. Nope, next!
My next CFI after that was 24 yr old, we got along pretty good.
My current CFI isn't necessarily an old crusty salt, he's middle forties, and very much an obnoxious OCD, Type-A personality. He sighs loudly when I annoy him by not picking stuff up as quickly as he might like. And he sometimes yells, and he has taken the controls from me in flight when frustrated a few times without asking/stating "my controls". When we do ground he'll quiz me about IFR stuff. I'll answer his question correctly, but he keeps going and going harder and harder on me. As if he is just waiting/hoping and trying to get me to answer a question wrong. In my opinion I don't think that we've been progressing as fast as I could because we clash personality wise.
I was having problems with approaches and wanted to show my current instruct after the Christmas break that ha you're wrong, I can do what frustrated him with me so much. So I went to another school on the airport to do a few flights. They put me with a younger instructor in his middle twenties. Instead of yelling when I forgot something, or made a mistake, or could have done something better. He would calmly ask me what I did wrong, if I didn't know he would tell me. If I was behind the airplane he would say what I did good, what I could do better next time and give me a heading and say "hey, let's do that again." I picked things up much faster with him, due to his teaching style and less tension in the cockpit and on the ground.
Unfortunately he only works PT at that school, his main job is teaching at KGYR for the Lufthansa school. The owner of that other school seems like a used car salesmen, so my Spidey senses tell me to stay away. tl:dr I've not had any luck with the old crusty types. A CFI who's patient, adaptable to other types of learning habits and just styles seem to work better for me. But to each there own.