Worst CFI You Have Had

N

njdem82

New Member
Hello Again All!!

Glad to be back and posting again. I had the (good/bad) fortune to have many CFI's during my training and so was able to compare them. I would also like to ask you guys about your experiences and if you ever had a really bad instructor. As usual please bear with me the question is here but as some of you know I tend to over-explain things at times :) For those who do not want to read all of my my ramblings I have bolded the question it is at the bottom of the page. This just happened recently and i would love to write pages to fully explain the situation but I hope this will suffice as I will not have time to edit please forgive mistakes and bad formatting and ask any questions which you may have. Thanks Fellas

Again the instructor which I think of is a very good pilot. But I assume from his demeanor, my experience with him and his own statements that he is one of those who is "just passing through" and really does not care about his students except to the extent which it could benefit or hurt him. He was to prepare me for my commercial ride , I failed for Nav (lol long story ) , Steep Turns and Short field landings , did additional training (2 hours) and went up again , this time it was much better as I had watched some videos on youtube about steep turns and short field landings. Still I busted with steep turns and short field landings being the unsatisfactory items.

This ofcourse is my responsibility and my failure , I am not writing this so that I can try to place blame on someone else, it is on me. But I go to a fairly large school and if you double bust they do not give you another chance to get endorsed. Well , to be precise, they don't give certain people another chance and never feel the need to explain the inequity of this policy which is not consistantly followed. They did let me believe that I could be endorsed after a 2 hour re-train but only later I realized that I would have to buy this packet again (and would likely have the same instructor) I did not get the job done , close but as you all know "close" has led to plenty of disasters. I will improve my skills to where I can call myself a commercial pilot and know that I am not just one on paper , it will be much easier since I found a very good instructor which I am very grateful for and excited about!

So back to my question. Since I started this phase of training my instructor said that he does not want to say anything so that I figure out the problems and fix them myself. I understand the philosophy behind this but I needed training on technique , especially when it came to steep turns and short field landings --perhaps perform/demonstrate or something. Just "figuring it out by myyself " was a huge waste of very expensive time We could have spoken about a plan of action on the ground but it was more like he was a passenger who would make sure that he would keep me safe if something unexpected and dangerous happened. Which is fine but its not instructing as I have come to understand it

When he did speak , sometimes it would just be a sigh of irritation, mostly it was to scream at me and say "come on man" "what the hell are you doing" etc. The only thing that accomplished was that it shook my confidence and I felt that I was becoming worse and worse as an aviator with every flight. I understand that we must stay steady , deal with things in the same way no matter what outside influences are present and that pressure is part of the game, but I don't think this helps when one is trying to learn specific technique (safety or basic proficiency was not the issue I needed help on specific techniques --which after 2 hours with my new intructor now seem like the most simple things in the world) atleast not as the only method of teaching.

It certainly did not help me , I should have spoken up and changed my instructor but I was still holding on to a pipe dream that this company would hire me as a CFI and management does not respond well to messing with their plans.

So to summarize and finally ask my question (sorry I am writing this as I wait so no time to edit). My last instructor was a great pilot, just as Michael Jordan was a great player but terrible coach. He did not care about my sucess (cannot speak for his other students though it seems to be similar) and certainly did not listen to me or work with me to troubleshoot problems. The only teaching was negative re inforcement which made me think things were harder than they are. I think a big part was pure ego but mostly just pure indifference as long as he got to log dual hours I felt like I was just another step on his way to an airline. Just along for the flight and yell when I did things wrong , this did not help me learn , gained more humility which is always good but I can get that lesson for far less money . I can see using this method if someone is cocky or very close to checkride (though close to a check ride it just shakes someone up , don't know why its used excpet for extreme cases) but I was neither and just wanted to learn , I knew I had/have deficiencies and would just like someone to help me correct them , not just make me feel bad when I did them and offfered no cool-headed solutions.


The only reason I know this was a bad instuctor is because every CFI I had before were good instructors. They taught me with a cool head , showed me how to do something and then asked me to do it , if I was not sucessful we did it again and again but they were patient , hard working and cared about my sucess and growth as a pilot and person. I think that CFI's are among the most under appreciated workers who bust their tails and have met some great one , again not because they were "Maverick" just because they cared and were willing to adapt to an individuals learning process.

I was wondering if I had any recourse but my main question is this.

Did you guys ever have some really terrible CFI's ?? If so what was your experience with him or her?? Did you have any recourse? Has that experience shown you what not to do as a CFI?? Also if you have any stories about a really great instructor that you had please share those as well , I think I will have a story like that in a few days. Thank you

So those are my questions,I do not have time to edit and I do not think I explained myself very well so please ask any questions that you may have. Hope the bolding is not annoying I did it for those who would want to skip the fluff and get right to the question of this topic, if that is not the way to do that please let me know and I will not in the future. I'm glad to be back on the forums as always looking around and learning. Hope all of you are well , thanks for taking the time to read my post. Believe it or not I actually try to keep them short , hardly works but I want to try my best to explain honestly and thoroughly. As always Thank You and I look forward to hearing your stories
 
My first CFI back in the mid-'80s never taught me about proper use of rudder. Consequently, I got into an inadvertent spin on my first solo trip to the practice area.

That same jacktard is now a state legislator, trying to make a name for himself for a run at a congressional seat, no doubt.

These days, rudder mastery is an emphasis item of mine for pilots I mentor in CAP.
 
njdem82 said:
snip
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njdem82, what was the problem with the short fields? Just curious.

aloft said:
My first CFI back in the mid-'80s never taught me about proper use of rudder. Consequently, I got into an inadvertent spin on my first solo trip to the practice area.
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Were you practicing really sloppy power-on stalls on your first trip out to the practice area? :crazy:

aloft said:
These days, rudder mastery is an emphasis item of mine for pilots I mentor in CAP.
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You should get the ticket...


To answer the original question, the worst CFI I ever had was on a simple aircraft checkout. The guy didn't know much about it, and that left me (as a relatively unconfident private pilot) not knowing much about the aircraft either. It was the kind of situation where the student is asking some pretty basic questions about the airplane and gets nothing but blank stares for answers. I took the book home and taught myself so it was no biggie.

The other one was grumpy retired full bird that only used negative reinforcement. It didn't effect me much, but I sure didn't look forward to flying with him.
 
You seriously got yourself into a spin on your first solo? Seriously? What were you flying, because even if you were doing really sloppy power on stalls, a 172 or 152 won't spin unless you push HARD on the rudder, so if you weren't using rudder...weird.

Anyway, worst one I had taught me to do 8s on pylons by holding the pylon by varying bank angle while keeping the airplane at the same altitude.
 
I had a CFI once that I hated flying with. Only negative reinforcement and made me feel like I just couldn't do it... pos pilot, etc. I thought about quitting for a bit. I found out he did this with another student to, and me and this student got to talking. We ended up concluding it wasn't us as we had both acceled in ppl and instrument training. So I walked into the chief pilot's office(141 school) and demanded a new instructor(we both did) as it was the only avenue to make that happen. New instructor and instantly everything was better and I finished my cpl in the same fashion that I had the rest of my ratings. I had a different instructor for all of my ratings, so I feel like I have a handle on a good and bad instructors.
 
Goldmember said:
You seriously got yourself into a spin on your first solo? Seriously? What were you flying, because even if you were doing really sloppy power on stalls, a 172 or 152 won't spin unless you push HARD on the rudder, so if you weren't using rudder...weird.

Anyway, worst one I had taught me to do 8s on pylons by holding the pylon by varying bank angle while keeping the airplane at the same altitude.
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That's a good question. pa28's can be flown feet on the floor, so couldn't be that either.
 
Goldmember said:
You seriously got yourself into a spin on your first solo? Seriously? What were you flying, because even if you were doing really sloppy power on stalls, a 172 or 152 won't spin unless you push HARD on the rudder, so if you weren't using rudder...weird.

Anyway, worst one I had taught me to do 8s on pylons by holding the pylon by varying bank angle while keeping the airplane at the same altitude.
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Had a student put a 152 into a spin during a PO stall and I have no idea how he did it. No weird rudder inputs, just freaking weird.
 
It was my 3rd solo flight, first one out of the pattern. I was attempting min controllable airspeed but had forgotten how to do it properly. Pretty much had everything wrong: full flaps (40 deg worth in a 150), power in, stall horn blaring, zero rudder, and eventually all those left-turning forces did me in, and I had to find out for myself that ailerons were powerless to stop it. :o
 
njdem82 said:
I shortened this stuff
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I'm not going to answer your question. I'm just going to point out that there may be some things wrong (as a whole) with the place you're training at

The two things that jumped out at me were "not being endorsed more than two times" in conjunction with "needing to buy another package.

I don't know the details, but I think you might be getting it in the tush.
 
aloft said:
Someday, when I've got the spare cash. Sure could help with my lack of multi time, wouldn't it.... :cool:
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Shoot, that multi time thing is a whole 'nutha mystery. Let me know if you figure it out! If you've got an "in" with CAF surely one of those guys is a 2 year CFI. Study buddy and you're in.
 
moxiepilot said:
I'm not going to answer your question. I'm just going to point out that there may be some things wrong (as a whole) with the place you're training at

The two things that jumped out at me were "not being endorsed more than two times" in conjunction with "needing to buy another package.

I don't know the details, but I think you might be getting it in the tush.
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I've seen this sort of treatment. Here's the scenario. A 70 hour student pilot that his place of training refuses to sign him off because of concerns over the oral exam. I pick the guy up. He can absolutely fly an airplane, and well. We do 4 hours of flying and 3 hours of ground. He's a private pilot now, and excelling at instrument training.

I don't know the specifics, but all this kid needed to get was motivated and realize that he could absolutely do it.
 
I have flown with more than 30 CFIs in all types of aircraft, never met an incompetent one.

Hate to say this, but doing a commercial or CFI ride, you shouldn't have a CFI spoon-feeding everything to you. You really do need to figure this stuff out by yourself at this point, because after you do those rides, it will all be on you to get things right. In airplanes you don't know, or operations you haven't seen before.

If your CFI is not pointing you in the right direction, or you learn better with someone else, by all means, get another CFI. But at the comm/CFI point, you shouldn't really be learning much new.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
... you shouldn't have a CFI spoon-feeding everything to you. You really do need to figure this stuff out by yourself at this point, because after you do those rides, it will all be on you to get things right. In airplanes you don't know, or operations you haven't seen before.

If your CFI is not pointing you in the right direction, or you learn better with someone else, by all means, get another CFI. But at the comm/CFI point, you shouldn't really be learning much new.
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This post is gold!

I wish people really understood the value and limits of the CFI/MEI.
 
I've had the good bad and the ugly...no wait, I'm the ugly one.

A great instructor can have a bad day, even bad months; some are just bad.

---------
After instructing for a year I decided to get my ASES. At the end of the first day, this jack wagon actually says to his wife, "I have to finish verbally abusing this student before I come home..." It was mind boggling that he was aware he was doing, yet continued. I'll take negative reinforcement, and as an instructor I'll tell you flat out what you did wrong and to what level, but it should never get personal.
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A two chance checkride limit swayed by money is a raw deal.
 
moxiepilot said:
I'm not going to answer your question. I'm just going to point out that there may be some things wrong (as a whole) with the place you're training at

The two things that jumped out at me were "not being endorsed more than two times" in conjunction with "needing to buy another package.

I don't know the details, but I think you might be getting it in the tush.
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The school I assume he is training at is extremely frustrating for a responsible, and caring CFI. Especially the accelerated program types. The pressure exerted both on the CFI and student to be finished in a certain period of time, I'm sorry but there's gold found with time and care. I worked for 3yrs at a "pilot mill" and it was tough. Tough, because not everyone is a superstar, and when trying to be thorough and patient, while management is breathing down your neck about deadlines with numerous students, sometimes customer service gets compromised, trying to ease the student's attitude from a heated argument with "the boss" several states away. You as a CFI feel like your heads in a vice, along with the student who feels like a failure. This personally was a very rare and isolated case during my 3 years. But it does happen. And it sucks! Additionally with accelerated program types, the information gained or retained is severely reduced due to time and student load demands. Go small, take your time, and get a CFI who is not only dedicated to aviation, but dedicated to YOUR success, time and money.

drunkenbeagle said:
I have flown with more than 30 CFIs in all types of aircraft, never met an incompetent one.

Hate to say this, but doing a commercial or CFI ride, you shouldn't have a CFI spoon-feeding everything to you. You really do need to figure this stuff out by yourself at this point, because after you do those rides, it will all be on you to get things right. In airplanes you don't know, or operations you haven't seen before.

If your CFI is not pointing you in the right direction, or you learn better with someone else, by all means, get another CFI. But at the comm/CFI point, you shouldn't really be learning much new.
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:yeahthat:

It's a hard pill to swallow, and like I said if you are training where I think you are it's no surprise to me. Possibly you haven't had enough practice or time to get them down. Now you're under pressure, stressed, and it's a recipe for disaster. Relax, think about what you're doing, relax, breathe, you can do this!
 
To the OP.

I'm curious why you choose to hire this specific instructor? What lead you to believe he was the right CFI to help you out? As I tell any new student it is all about a relationship. You NEED to be sure that you can spend a lot of time with this person and trust them to take good care of you. What happened to the CFI(s) that signed you off for the first couple of check rides? Did you fire them?

Sorry to hear you had a bad time with your current CFI, best of luck finding a good solution to your training.
 
Codyjp said:
To the OP.

I'm curious why you choose to hire this specific instructor? What lead you to believe he was the right CFI to help you out? As I tell any new student it is all about a relationship. You NEED to be sure that you can spend a lot of time with this person and trust them to take good care of you. What happened to the CFI(s) that signed you off for the first couple of check rides? Did you fire them?

Sorry to hear you had a bad time with your current CFI, best of luck finding a good solution to your training.
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It seems like a school where you don't pick. This is where 141 has the potential to suck.
 
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