WOFT, High School to Flight School packet questions

S

sethmeredith

New Member
Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forum and was looking to ask a few questions and maybe get some input on my WOFT packet. My name is Seth, I'm 19 years old and graduated from a Department of Defense school in 2008 over seas. I'm a military brat and most of my extended family is in the Army whether it be active or the reserves, enlisted or officer. I've grown up around this military tradition and am really looking forward to hopefully becoming the first Warrant in my family.

I have researched extensively about my packet and am completely done with my packet and just need to get one LOR signed. Here are the details of my packet.

ASVAB: 96, with a GT: 135
AFAST: 130
High School diploma, with no college.
Better than 20/20 vision
PFT: 256 :p (Sucky, I know.)
LOR: CW5 in aviation (has sat on many boards), CSM in aviation, and the CG of Aviation and Missile Command


I am wondering if my scores are good enough or if there may be any advice at all. I'm trying to go into the Battalion board as prepared as possible. What kind of questions do they ask and how should I project myself? I want to give off confidence, but I don't want to come off as cocky. Is there any tips on this? What color suit should I wear or will it even matter?

Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!

-Seth
 
sethmeredith said:
Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forum and was looking to ask a few questions and maybe get some input on my WOFT packet. My name is Seth, I'm 19 years old and graduated from a Department of Defense school in 2008 over seas. I'm a military brat and most of my extended family is in the Army whether it be active or the reserves, enlisted or officer. I've grown up around this military tradition and am really looking forward to hopefully becoming the first Warrant in my family.

I have researched extensively about my packet and am completely done with my packet and just need to get one LOR signed. Here are the details of my packet.

ASVAB: 96, with a GT: 135
AFAST: 130
High School diploma, with no college.
Better than 20/20 vision
PFT: 256 :p (Sucky, I know.)
LOR: CW5 in aviation (has sat on many boards), CSM in aviation, and the CG of Aviation and Missile Command


I am wondering if my scores are good enough or if there may be any advice at all. I'm trying to go into the Battalion board as prepared as possible. What kind of questions do they ask and how should I project myself? I want to give off confidence, but I don't want to come off as cocky. Is there any tips on this? What color suit should I wear or will it even matter?

Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!

-Seth
Click to expand...

Your scored are fantastic - especially your AFAST. Your LORs are coming from the exact right people. Don't worry about your PT test... a 250 or above means you're in good enough shape to be trainable.

During your boards you should be calm, professional, confident, and like you said, not cocky. Be humbled by the possibility to serve as a warrant officer. Project more of an interest in serving rather than just flying. Suit should be conservative... color should be dark. Most importantly it should fit well and you should be well groomed.

Best of luck - and when you get to Rucker send me a PM - I have a great townhouse right near the gate for rent. ;)
 
Related question: How come the Medical Service Corps aviators seem to have far more commissioned officer pilots vs warrants, as compared to the regular aviation branch which seems to have far more warrant pilots?
 
It might seem like it but I don't think they do. Their units are structured much like a regular army aviation unit. Most med service companies I've worked with have been large companies like chinook comapnies used to be and were led by majors and not captains. Where a typical aviation company looks like this:

1 Cpt - Commander
3 Lts - Platoon Leaders and XO

A large aviation company has it's own maintenance section (and some other things, and looks something like this:

1 Maj - Commander
4 Cpts - Flight and Maint PLs, and XO
4-6 Lieutenants - Section Leaders

But no matter what the companies are usually staffed 2 warrants per airframe.
 
Thank you Ian. I have a friend who is also 19 and his packet just went to the USAREC board last week. His packet is very similar to mine. He had a 134 on the AFAST and I think a GT of 135. I'm not sure about the rest of his packet, but he boarded and did not make it.

Are the scores everything, or would you say that the way you present yourself and other parts of your packet weigh just as much? I was told that out of nineteen people boarding only four were selected. Is my packet competitive enough for that kind of selection rate? The truth is, I have a lot riding on this and really have worked hard to get into this program over the last year. I assumed my scores were good and everything so I wouldn't have to worry, but then when my friend didn't get selected, it worried me. Is there anything I can do to spruce up my packet? Thank You!!!!!!

-Seth
 
sethmeredith said:
Thank you Ian. I have a friend who is also 19 and his packet just went to the USAREC board last week. His packet is very similar to mine. He had a 134 on the AFAST and I think a GT of 135. I'm not sure about the rest of his packet, but he boarded and did not make it.

Are the scores everything, or would you say that the way you present yourself and other parts of your packet weigh just as much? I was told that out of nineteen people boarding only four were selected. Is my packet competitive enough for that kind of selection rate? The truth is, I have a lot riding on this and really have worked hard to get into this program over the last year. I assumed my scores were good and everything so I wouldn't have to worry, but then when my friend didn't get selected, it worried me. Is there anything I can do to spruce up my packet? Thank You!!!!!!

-Seth
Click to expand...

I really don't know... boards are always a mysterious thing. As an ROTC instructor one of my top cadets really wanted to be branched aviation. He nailed the AFAST, did well in ROTC, received top ratings at leadership camp, earned his PPL, and somehow was branched ordinance. Who knows what that specific board was looking for and how they weighted scores, vs. personality, vs. needs of the Army.

Truth is, you may be competing with 20 other dudes with similar or better scores. If they only have 4 slots, the best 4 get in.

This is not meant to discourage you, but to let you know stuff happens that you can't control. However, you have plenty of options if this doesn't work out.

1) Get some college and reapply.
2) Enlist, and then reapply. (This is probably the best way to become an aviation warrant officer).
3) Apply for an ROTC scholarship and try the commissioned route.
 
Thank you. I have one question that I've had mixed replies about. I've heard from some people that your essay is supposed to be hand written. Is this true? Mine is typed. I asked the CW5 and he said he never heard of them being handwritten, but I have read it several times. I guess the Army's needs and the program availability are what effects the numbers of recruits. I feel like my packet is fairly strong, and I missed the last board by a few days, I'm assuming it was for the better. :) Hopefully the next board is less stiff. I go to battalion on the 8th of December and I will post on the forum after that and if I think of any other questions. Thanks again.

-Seth
 
Somewhat related question: If you've got a bachelors and a masters degree (mechanical engineering and aerospace engineering respectively), should that have any impact on whether you're better suited to become a warrant officer or a commissioned officer? What are the pros/cons of the different roles? Is it preferable to be a comissioned flying officer?
 
sethmeredith said:
I've heard from some people that your essay is supposed to be hand written. Is this true? Mine is typed.

-Seth
Click to expand...

No idea - but typed sounds right. I was a commissioned guy so I'm not an expert in WO boards. We do have a few current and former WOs on JC - I'm sure they'll be by to help.
 
sog said:
Somewhat related question: If you've got a bachelors and a masters degree (mechanical engineering and aerospace engineering respectively), should that have any impact on whether you're better suited to become a warrant officer or a commissioned officer?
Click to expand...

Better suited? Not at all. Although 4 year degrees are becoming the norm in the WO corps - at least for promotion to CW4 and above. A degree will probably help you get selected, though.


What are the pros/cons of the different roles? Is it preferable to be a comissioned flying officer?
Click to expand...
My real down and dirty opinion:

Commissioned - Pros

- Lead, manage and fly.
- More marketable in the civilian market for non-flying positions
- More money
- More responsibility (could be a con ;))
- More diversity in experiences
- The ability to have a positive affect on a greater number of soldiers

Cons

- Don't fly as much as WOs over your career - years 1-4 you'd probably be equal, then commissioned guys start getting staff jobs that take them out of the cockpit.
- Jack of all trades, master of none (this covers a lot of the cons)
- Very unlikely to specialize in something - for example, commissioned guys generally don't become instructor pilots.
- As you get higher in rank you become more removed from the tactical flight units and your peer base becomes smaller and smaller.
 
The scores are really good, I'll admit. The boards take preference over people who have actually served in the army. It will be very difficult to be picked up with no actual army experience. Now-a-days you are competing for slots against guys who have had years of experience in the army and multiple deployments. Being so young, you've got years ahead of you. My suggestion would be to go do ROTC in college.. do your 3 years as an officer.. That will be at least 1 deployment. You'll have plenty of time between the age of 25 (or 26) and 32 (the max). There shouldn't be any rush at 19 to go to Rucker.. particularly now with the several years you've been at war. It is particularly hard for new people at schools in the army when you don't have a CIB.. CAB.. or any type of combat patch on the right side of your ACU.
 
Well, I was told that the Army sometimes will prefer people fresh out of school better, because they retain the information better and are more easily trained. Plus, when you get a 25 or 30 year old guy you're not going to get a whole career of service out of them. However, If I'm selected at the age of 19, I have a whole lot of time to serve them and they will get more value out the what I am assuming is very expensive training. Is there any logic in that? I was just thinking more along those lines. I'm not saying you're wrong because I don't know any of this. I'm just speculating here, and trying to bounce around some ideas.

-Seth
 
sethmeredith said:
Well, I was told that the Army sometimes will prefer people fresh out of school better, because they retain the information better and are more easily trained. Plus, when you get a 25 or 30 year old guy you're not going to get a whole career of service out of them. However, If I'm selected at the age of 19, I have a whole lot of time to serve them and they will get more value out the what I am assuming is very expensive training. Is there any logic in that? I was just thinking more along those lines. I'm not saying you're wrong because I don't know any of this. I'm just speculating here, and trying to bounce around some ideas.

-Seth
Click to expand...

No, he's right. I see why you might think another way, but there are very good reasons the Army prefers prior enlisted soldiers to become Warrants.

1) All Army courses, from Infantry training to Warrant training to flight training are conducted in the same manner and style. Prior enlisted are used to it.
2) Anyone who passes the basic aptitude tests can do just fine in flight school. That's the purpose of those tests in the first place.
3) Prior enlisted are already indoctrinated in the Army making them more likely to pass WOCS and flight school. It is also more likely they will continue serving.
4) Prior experience, especially combat experience, is tremendously valuable. As a commander I'd love all the prior service infantry NCOs I could get as my pilots.

Not saying HS to Flight School people can't do it... but compared to their prior service counter parts they have a much steeper hill to climb during training and have many more hurdles to acclimate to today's high tempo environment.

If you get in off the street - good on you... but like Stryker said, it's a tough road to negotiate.
 
Okay, if I do end up enlisting. What MOS would be better to pick or would it matter? How long do I need to wait before I can submit my packet again if I do? I would want pick an MOS that I would enjoy and feel challenged both physically and mentally in, but really my dream is to be a leader. I know you have to walk before you can run, but getting into this program would be an incredible opportunity for me and just the fact that the Army offers anyone the chance is awesome. It can be discouraging when people say how selective it is, but I'm not afraid of taking my chances. I've done everything to the best of my abilities and if I don't make it, I will go back and reevaluate things to see what mistakes I made or how I can do things differently until I reach my goal of flying.

I'm curious. In flight school, do the high school to flight school guy get less respect than the prior service guys? I could see how it would feel kind of annoying that some guy just came off the street and is in the same position where you've been in the Army for so and so years.

Again though, I think the selection process is very political and for some kid with no real life experience. I'd be pressed to not pick the prior service guy. Also, it all boils down to, they could pick any of the applicants and it's just up to how they feel about your packet.

-Seth
 
Being 19.. you should enjoy life anyway. I've been deployed enough to know that life is too short to spend your teens and learly 20s in combat. It's not as glorious as we are bred to think from XBox and PS3 games where you can press "reset" when you die.. not like that. I dropped out of college in 2003 when the war in Iraq kicked off and a month into my deployment a suicide bomber walked into my dining facility before christmas killing 30 people nearly myself included. You being 19.. go to college.. enjoy life. I sort of regret leaving college before I graduated because when I returned, I came back angry.. haunted by a lot of bad stuff I experienced. It has taken years to get past. Being a young pilot, you'll be spending your early 20s stuck in the sands of Iraq or Afghanistan maybe being a Medevac pilot. It'd be rewarding but while you're transporting people who have been blown to shreds and barely hanging on to life, your friends will be laughing and enjoying college football games. You don't think it now, but you will wish about every day you were in college enjoying yourself. Army aviation will be there when you get older and probably so will the wars... don't rush it.
 
Okay, here's the thing about that. I would be in my second year of college right now, but I messed up High School. I graduated with around a 2.0. I took the ASVAB and I scored a 96 and thought hey this is my chance to turn around all of those lost years in high school and erase that failure. If I make it in this program I won't be thinking about all of my friends in college, I've already been thinking that for the past year and a half. I will be thinking, that the unemployment rate is higher than it has even been and I'm damn happy and proud to have a good job and career with the Army. I wish college was an option but it's not for me. I'm sure I could have gotten into somewhere, but I have 9 siblings and my sister who graduated as the salutatorian before me seemed like an obvious investment for college. I can see my father's apprehension in wanting to pay for my college. If I make it into this program I can be doing something that I'm really proud to be doing and that my father and my country will be proud of. So, it's an excellent opportunity for some one in my position and I won't regret it for a second. I've thought about it long and hard and I know it's what I want to do. I'm sorry If I'm coming off as belligerent. I don't mean to. I respect your opinions and value your advice.

-Seth
 
if college isn't an option for you, go for the army. If you want a leg up on people for WOFT, here are my suggestions- Pick a specific MOS that is important to aviation- ground combat (I'm an infantry NCO) or something dealing with the aviation side- ops specialist, mechanic, avionics, etc etc. While in the army, take as many Army Correspodence Course class (ACCP) you can take. It will help with promotion and show your commanders you are serious about your career. Also while you are in the army, consider college classes at University of Phoenix to get some credits.. or degree. Online programs have a lot of controversy behind them. Some say they are great, others say they aren't worth anything. From experience, the army doesn't care. They see a degree as a degree. I have a degree from NC State University and as far as the army is concerned it's valued the same as an online degree. One of my former commanders liked seeing an online degree more purely for the fact that it showed that the soldier was staying in the army and getting a degree at the same time... again, if that's the route you want to take, go for it completely and don't look back. Be prepared though for an increased sense of narcisism and almost a self righteous ego compared to your friends. Unfortunately, you'll eventually lose a lot of them because you'll feel you are better than them but you'll gain some that will be life long friends.
 
sethmeredith said:
I wish college was an option but it's not for me.
Click to expand...

Sure it is! Since you want to serve in the Army anyway, apply for an ROTC scholarship. If you don't get that because of your grades, enlist and then use the GI Bill to pay for college or apply for a Green to Gold Scholarship which lets you out of your enlistment contract, pays for your college, and commissions you as an officer.

I joined the Army at 17, served as an enlisted Infantryman for 5 years, then earned a Green to Gold scholarship and was flying helicopters as an officer by 26. No reason you couldn't do the same.
 
Ian J said:
Sure it is! Since you want to serve in the Army anyway, apply for an ROTC scholarship. If you don't get that because of your grades, enlist and then use the GI Bill to pay for college or apply for a Green to Gold Scholarship which lets you out of your enlistment contract, pays for your college, and commissions you as an officer.

I joined the Army at 17, served as an enlisted Infantryman for 5 years, then earned a Green to Gold scholarship and was flying helicopters as an officer by 26. No reason you couldn't do the same.
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Good call.. forgot about the whole green to gold thing... do what this guy did ^^.. a 2.0 in high school though is difficult to get a scholarship
 
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