Will computers replace pilots?

Next time I'm in a 135 ride and CRM comes up I'll just the examiner that some dude on the internet disagrees with everything we've been told. He's "got a guy" so he knows.

I just don't know how a guy could say that it's a "mistaken concept that accidents are the result of human error." That's just objectively false. That's why we have CRM and TEM and try to objectively develop procedures that work to engineer the possibility of failure out of systems.
 
The vast majority of accidents are the result of human error.

That was believed but reflects an understanding that is now over 30 years old and based on current evidence, false. I know that many believe it still, but the industry is slow to move to new concepts. I suggest reading Dekker, Hollnagel, Leveson, Woods, et al.
 
I just don't know how a guy could say that it's a "mistaken concept that accidents are the result of human error." That's just objectively false. That's why we have CRM and TEM and try to objectively develop procedures that work to engineer the possibility of failure out of systems.

It is also why we have plateaued in safety improvement due to the limitations. CRM and TEM have some benefit but much of the core concepts and precepts are based on flawed assumptions. Saying it is "an error" is not explanatory at all as it does not explain why the error occurred. No question many organizations, including NTSB, still work on that model but it will be replaced with the concepts in resilience engineering in the next few years.
 
You have demonstrated that, in fact, you do not.

Third hand knowledge is not understanding.

Not at all. I fully understand the system and the concepts and the limitations, the design aspects and algorithms used and I am also aware of the technology coming that has not been made public yet.
 
That was believed but reflects an understanding that is now over 30 years old and based on current evidence, false. I know that many believe it still, but the industry is slow to move to new concepts. I suggest reading Dekker, Hollnagel, Leveson, Woods, et al.

I'll look into it...but honestly, I know people who have died because of their own errors - human error is still the leading cause of aircraft accidents. You are correct in your statement that calling it an error doesn't provide any illumination into how to prevent future errors, but that's what investigations are for. That's how system safety works. You find a risk, then you work to mitigate that risk. This is no different. I am familiar with the basics of resilience engineering - and it's solid work...but it's not the whole picture. Just because events can be described by resilience engineering doesn't mean that pilot errors don't occur - nor does it mean that they aren't the leading cause of accidents, it just means we need to develop better tools to help identify and eliminate those errors before they become to big to control.

You are correct in saying that "pilot error" is not exactly informative - but that doesn't eliminate the point that the pilot made an error. If you want to prevent those errors from happening you've got to develop systems (both hardware, software, and human procedures) that reduce those risks, but saying that pilot error isn't the cause of the majority of accidents is a head-in-the-sand approach to safety. Indeed I think the fact that the biggest risk is pilot error (and is basically non-existent for 121 operations) means that we've done an absolutely marvelous job in developing engineering solutions to the problems of reliability and safety. I mean, look at the BHM UPS accident. From wikipedia:

The NTSB also found contributing factors to the accident included: 1) the flight crew’s failure to properly configure and verify the flight management computer for the profile approach; 2) the captain’s failure to communicate his intentions to the first officer once it became apparent the vertical profile was not captured; 3) the flight crew’s expectation that they would break out of the clouds at 1,000 feet above ground level due to incomplete weather information; 4) the first officer’s failure to make the required minimums callouts; 5) the captain’s performance deficiencies likely due to factors including, but not limited to, fatigue, distraction, or confusion, consistent with performance deficiencies exhibited during training, and; 6) the first officer’s fatigue due to acute sleep loss resulting from her ineffective off-duty time management and circadian factor.

Ultimately, in my mind, the real "trigger" event that could have eliminated this accident from happening is hitting guys in the simulator with more CFIT scenarios and training a max performance climb as a "conditioned response" to a terrain alert in the same way that a TCAS RA demands pilot action. Ultimately, the "engineering" solution - ie GPWS, warned them, but they ignored it.

On August 16, 2013, at their third media briefing, the NTSB reported that the crew received two GPWS alerts "sink rate!" (that they were descending too quickly) 16 seconds before the end of the recording. Three seconds later, one of the pilots commented that they had the runway in sight. Nine seconds before the end of the recording, impact sounds were audible. The crew had briefed the approach to runway 18 and were cleared to land by air traffic control two minutes prior to the end of the recording. The captain was the pilot flying, and the autopilot was engaged at the time of the accident.

There are so many preventable pilot errors in this accident...like nearly every other accident. Failure to recognize that we can be the cause of errors removes the responsibility from the shoulders of the pilot. This is not a good thing, because ultimately we are responsible for the actions we take - regardless of how we were pressured or the systems that lead to the scenario that allowed us to make a "bad decision." I'm not saying that we should be looking for "who to blame." In fact, I think casting "blame" is actually counter-productive to safety. We're not looking for fault, we're looking to find the root cause of an occurrence so that we better reduce risk. Still, failure to acknowledge that pilot errors are the majority cause of accidents belies a fundamental misunderstanding of why accidents occur.
 
Single pilot jets have been operated by 136/91 for decades. What makes 121 ops immune? Same airspace.

After all 'planes just fly themselves these days...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Single pilot jets have been operated by 136/91 for decades. What makes 121 ops immune? Same airspace.

After all 'planes just fly themselves these days...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I actually don't see the problem at all if the systems are developed to be "safe enough." The modern stuff on the market is amazing in terms of how easy it is to use.
 
I'll look into it...but honestly, I know people who have died because of their own errors - human error is still the leading cause of aircraft accidents. You are correct in your statement that calling it an error doesn't provide any illumination into how to prevent future errors, but that's what investigations are for. That's how system safety works. You find a risk, then you work to mitigate that risk. This is no different. I am familiar with the basics of resilience engineering - and it's solid work...but it's not the whole picture. Just because events can be described by resilience engineering doesn't mean that pilot errors don't occur - nor does it mean that they aren't the leading cause of accidents, it just means we need to develop better tools to help identify and eliminate those errors before they become to big to control.

You are correct in saying that "pilot error" is not exactly informative - but that doesn't eliminate the point that the pilot made an error. If you want to prevent those errors from happening you've got to develop systems (both hardware, software, and human procedures) that reduce those risks, but saying that pilot error isn't the cause of the majority of accidents is a head-in-the-sand approach to safety. Indeed I think the fact that the biggest risk is pilot error (and is basically non-existent for 121 operations) means that we've done an absolutely marvelous job in developing engineering solutions to the problems of reliability and safety. I mean, look at the BHM UPS accident. From wikipedia:



Ultimately, in my mind, the real "trigger" event that could have eliminated this accident from happening is hitting guys in the simulator with more CFIT scenarios and training a max performance climb as a "conditioned response" to a terrain alert in the same way that a TCAS RA demands pilot action. Ultimately, the "engineering" solution - ie GPWS, warned them, but they ignored it.



There are so many preventable pilot errors in this accident...like nearly every other accident. Failure to recognize that we can be the cause of errors removes the responsibility from the shoulders of the pilot. This is not a good thing, because ultimately we are responsible for the actions we take - regardless of how we were pressured or the systems that lead to the scenario that allowed us to make a "bad decision." I'm not saying that we should be looking for "who to blame." In fact, I think casting "blame" is actually counter-productive to safety. We're not looking for fault, we're looking to find the root cause of an occurrence so that we better reduce risk. Still, failure to acknowledge that pilot errors are the majority cause of accidents belies a fundamental misunderstanding of why accidents occur.

I don't have time to explain this all, but the bottom line is that systems are designed to operate within a narrow parameter and the gaps between those parameters and the real world have to be filled by the variability in human performance. When that goes well we mostly do not notice, but sometimes it does not. We call that an "error", but in actual fact the system was just designed to be too dependent on that human variability to fill the gaps. This is coupled with the misguided concept that with the "barriers" in place via the automation that we can then cut down on the training and knowledge base of the pilots and other sharp end personnel. By doing so we are actually taking the ability of the human to compensate out of the system and it becomes quite brittle where what would otherwise be small issues can lead to accidents. Fatigue will also pull that resilience out. UPS at BHM is a good example of that. It is incumbent on us as pilots to be as skilled as we can, but we are also somewhat at the mercy of the operators that want to reduce training footprints and justify doing so because when things stay on script their cook-book flying methods work, or at least the problems are harder to recognize. The OEMs are also part of this as they sell airplanes that they like to advertise as "error proof", and then introduce common flaws that they do not want to change so the training costs from one model to next can stay low. Lots more but that's enough for now.
 
I could say the same about you. ;-)
And you'd be wrong about that too.

It is the epitome of hubris to somehow think that because you look at data points on a screen you somehow have a better understanding of this than those of us who do it for a living. Again, knowing a guy that knows a guy isn't understanding.
 
I actually don't see the problem at all if the systems are developed to be "safe enough." The modern stuff on the market is amazing in terms of how easy it is to use.

Airlines are considered part of an "ultra safe system", which is much more vulnerable to a single event due to the risk of multiple fatalities and other factors. As such even a single accident can be catastrophic and thus require a much higher level of resilience similar to a nuclear power plant.
 
And you'd be wrong about that too.

It is the epitome of hubris to somehow think that because you look at data points on a screen you somehow have a better understanding of this than those of us who do it for a living. Again, knowing a guy that knows a guy isn't understanding.

No, the epitome of hubris is for you to make assumptions about all I do in my professional life, and I can assure you it is far, far more than what you seem to think!
 
I don't have time to explain this all, but the bottom line is that systems are designed to operate within a narrow parameter and the gaps between those parameters and the real world have to be filled by the variability in human performance. When that goes well we mostly do not notice, but sometimes it does not. We call that an "error", but in actual fact the system was just designed to be too dependent on that human variability to fill the gaps. This is coupled with the misguided concept that with the "barriers" in place via the automation that we can then cut down on the training and knowledge base of the pilots and other sharp end personnel. By doing so we are actually taking the ability of the human to compensate out of the system and it becomes quite brittle where what would otherwise be small issues can lead to accidents. Fatigue will also pull that resilience out. UPS at BHM is a good example of that. It is incumbent on us as pilots to be as skilled as we can, but we are also somewhat at the mercy of the operators that want to reduce training footprints and justify doing so because when things stay on script their cook-book flying methods work, or at least the problems are harder to recognize. The OEMs are also part of this as they sell airplanes that they like to advertise as "error proof", and then introduce common flaws that they do not want to change so the training costs from one model to next can stay low. Lots more but that's enough for now.

This is still an error, regardless of what we call it - yeah, pulling resilience out of a system is by and large "bad" and systems should be "engineered" to increase resilience to calamity...but ignoring a sink rate alert on approach right as you're breaking out of the clouds is an error. Yes, we "relied upon human performance to fill in the gaps there," but the bottom line is, the last "link in the chain" or "hole in the cheese" or "percolation theory" or whatever model you want to use to describe the accident in this accident was the pilot's decision to continue after the system telling him "GO AWAY FROM THE GROUND!" in no uncertain terms. Yes there are things that lead up to this accident (namely fatigue and confusion in the cockpit) but that's ultimately where conditioned responses to dangerous scenarios are key. Similarly, look at the Asiana accident - yes, I see how this could happen, and I'm certainly not immune, but these guys couldn't fly a visual approach. Yes I understand it's a complicated airplane, complicated airspace, and there were other cultural and linguistic issues that likely didn't help...but if you're not on speed on your approach... you go around - those guys didn't. Pilot error.

We are responsible for our own competency - no one else, not the company, not the FAA, not the engineers who designed the aircraft - us. We are responsible for our actions - it's not the result of a flawed system if you forget to drop the gear. It's not the fault of a flawed system if you CFIT - yes, better systems likely would make operations more resilient and damage tolerant, but it is not a panacea. If there are issues where we have to rely on human pilots to compensate for weaknesses in the system, then it is the responsibility of the human pilots (nay, their ethical duty) to assure that they are able to fill in the gaps.
 
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