WIA worth it?

Autothrust Blue said:
I'm a straight man, and I attended all four days of NGPA. And I made some amazing friends in the process. (And yes, there are definitely GP at NGPA.) The career fair itself was almost a non-event compared to the amount of fun I had hanging out with an awesome group of aviators and I'm definitely going next year. And hanging out with @Derg of course...

I don't have to be (for example) gay to (wholeheartedly) support diversity and inclusion in professional aviation.
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I'm totally down with all that, but I really do feel like some people surely have the wrong idea.

-Fox
 
Derg said:
Knowing what I learned after 2010, hot dang, anything short of a 1980's-style "DeLorean Financing Package", I don't know how you do it. I'm having flashbacks of dropping $30,000-plus, out of pocket, and simply hoping to break even.

Which I didn't. By far.



I always tell guys to work the bar if they don't have the loot for a career fair and just try their best to run out of business cards.

During OBAP, I was chilling out with the entire Virgin America, JetBlue and FedEx recruitment team near those couches way in the back, just shooting the breeze, everyone in civilian clothes, casual, sharing some laughs and some adult beverages. If someone wanted to work for one of the four carriers would have had the networking opportunity of a lifetime.

My advice is always to actively seek out networking opportunities, daily. Make finding a next-level job your full time job. I know people have families, personal commitments, yadda yadda yadda, that's not going to be any different for the rest of your career and, in fact, as you grow older, it gets far far more challenging.

I don't know how many guys will be sitting three tables away in the DTW food court, bitching about how they've made no progress at SouthernJets or have any internal recommendations when I'm sitting there in full uniform eating a taco salad that I'd be more than happy to answer a question or at least establish some sort of professional correspondence.

People are always full of "want", but not many are full of… well… "action".
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Yup. If you know what bar to go to the night before the JetBlue interview dates, you can run into the entire team "catching up." Meeting someone when they aren't "official" can be better because they can be real with you, and you can do the same.

Interviewing is a two way street. You may not like the company as much as they like you. Maybe you turn the company down. We want people who WANT to be here. Long term. So don't blow smoke up their ass. Be yourself.

And yes. People get interviews directly from meeting recruiters at the job fairs.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Yup. If you know what bar to go to the night before the JetBlue interview dates, you can run into the entire team "catching up." Meeting someone when they aren't "official" can be better because they can be real with you, and you can do the same.

Interviewing is a two way street. You may not like the company as much as they like you. Maybe you turn the company down. We want people who WANT to be here. Long term. So don't blow smoke up their ass. Be yourself.

And yes. People get interviews directly from meeting recruiters at the job fairs.
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Post of the week, because it is true.

BUT! Horse… Water… They ain't goin' drank. :)
 
Derg said:
Post of the week, because it is true.

BUT! Horse… Water… They ain't goin' drank. :)
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Some do. Those are the ones I'm pumpin' water for. I still have faith that most are going about it the right way. The guys who just sit back and wait for us to call them because they have 5,000 PIC and our average applicant has 2,000...well...they get what's coming to them. The guys who hustle deserve it.

True story:

I rode on a GoJet jumpseat in October, and I gave the captain my card because he said he had applied and wanted to know if I could look over his resume. He emailed me two days later, and I looked over his stuff. I said it looked good, and forwarded it to recruiting too.

Fast forward to NGPA, and the guy is there talking to a recruiter who happens to be a good friend of mine. He was doing an okay job, but not hitting it out of the park. When the recruiter asked if he knew anyone here, he dropped my name and said I was kind enough to review his resume, and that he appreciated it. 15 minutes later I got a call asking me my opinion of the guy. I said that I was impressed that he took the time to actually email me and carry on a dialogue, and that I would give him a shot. He got put into the "short stack."

So you never know. Get cards. Give cards. Reach out. And follow through.
 
Do you guys still have the Blue Dart system? Someone said that it wasn't universal, and that not all jetBlue pilots got a Blue Dart. But that it is supposedly a one-time thing that a current jetBlue pilot can use, and when they use it for a pilot they are guaranteed an interview as long as they meet the mins.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Do you guys still have the Blue Dart system? Someone said that it wasn't universal, and that not all jetBlue pilots got a Blue Dart. But that it is supposedly a one-time thing that a current jetBlue pilot can use, and when they use it for a pilot they are guaranteed an interview as long as they meet the mins.
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Yes. Not everyone gets one. The chief pilots hand them out sometimes. You get one per career at JetBlue, so you must choose wisely!
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Yes. Not everyone gets one. The chief pilots hand them out sometimes. You get one per career at JetBlue, so you must choose wisely!
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Yeah, if it's just a one time thing I would imagine most guys would probably save it for a family member when the time comes (grown son/daughter, brother/sister, etc).
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Some do. Those are the ones I'm pumpin' water for. I still have faith that most are going about it the right way. The guys who just sit back and wait for us to call them because they have 5,000 PIC and our average applicant has 2,000...well...they get what's coming to them. The guys who hustle deserve it.

True story:

I rode on a GoJet jumpseat in October, and I gave the captain my card because he said he had applied and wanted to know if I could look over his resume. He emailed me two days later, and I looked over his stuff. I said it looked good, and forwarded it to recruiting too.

Fast forward to NGPA, and the guy is there talking to a recruiter who happens to be a good friend of mine. He was doing an okay job, but not hitting it out of the park. When the recruiter asked if he knew anyone here, he dropped my name and said I was kind enough to review his resume, and that he appreciated it. 15 minutes later I got a call asking me my opinion of the guy. I said that I was impressed that he took the time to actually email me and carry on a dialogue, and that I would give him a shot. He got put into the "short stack."

So you never know. Get cards. Give cards. Reach out. And follow through.
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Great advice but I have personally given up on networking. I think there are a few great stories like this one but for most of us networking seems to not be as effective as it was years ago. I did everything imaginable to get a call at JB since it has always been my dream airline for as long as I can remember. I've read all the blue books several times (love the story), dumped all my cash into the stock years ago, stopped by the headquarters on my days off, have 4 LOR's from JB pilots and 1 is from a B6 CKA that is a family friend who personally knew the recruiter I spoke with at a job fair. I've applied to 6 consecutive windows, no skeletons, humble attitude, volunteer work, previous regional pilot/recruiter, PIC A320 & 170/190 types with thousands of SIC in type, paid for resume review, no failures and a MBA. I've put all my previous networking efforts into JB and up until recently I may have been one of the few pilots left with a JB app to have never applied to any legacy. I've had conversations with other pilots and feel I was the only soul alive who would happily turn down any legacy offer if given a B6 CJO on the same day.
Now I'm waiting for captain class on the airbus for one of the LCC's wondering if networking really works. I've only had 3 aviation interviews and I recieved the job with all 3 with no networking. I'm sure I will get flamed here for this post especially here on JC but I'm just keeping it real. I'm happy for all those who have had success with networking and I believe it is better vs no networking but I feel it is highly overrated. Just my 2 cents.
 
Lunchbox said:
Great advice but I have personally given up on networking. I think there are a few great stories like this one but for most of us networking seems to not be as effective as it was years ago. I did everything imaginable to get a call at JB since it has always been my dream airline for as long as I can remember. I've read all the blue books several times (love the story), dumped all my cash into the stock years ago, stopped by the headquarters on my days off, have 4 LOR's from JB pilots and 1 is from a B6 CKA that is a family friend who personally knew the recruiter I spoke with at a job fair. I've applied to 6 consecutive windows, no skeletons, humble attitude, volunteer work, previous regional pilot/recruiter, PIC A320 & 170/190 types with thousands of SIC in type, paid for resume review, no failures and a MBA. I've put all my previous networking efforts into JB and up until recently I may have been one of the few pilots left with a JB app to have never applied to any legacy. I've had conversations with other pilots and feel I was the only soul alive who would happily turn down any legacy offer if given a B6 CJO on the same day.
Now I'm waiting for captain class on the airbus for one of the LCC's wondering if networking really works. I've only had 3 aviation interviews and I recieved the job with all 3 with no networking. I'm sure I will get flamed here for this post especially here on JC but I'm just keeping it real. I'm happy for all those who have had success with networking and I believe it is better vs no networking but I feel it is highly overrated. Just my 2 cents.
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I'm sorry it didn't work for you, but networking is the best way to be successful. It's very rare for someone to get hired with absolutely no contacts or conversations with someone to help them. In my new hire class there were 20 guys. All of us had someone high up helping us. Zero got there with no connections.

Discouraging networking is terrible advice.

There is a JC member who I'm currently trying to help, and if it weren't for this website we wouldn't know each other at all. Ask him if networking helps. (Maybe wait until he gets an interview hopefully.)
 
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Lunchbox said:
Great advice but I have personally given up on networking. I think there are a few great stories like this one but for most of us networking seems to not be as effective as it was years ago. I did everything imaginable to get a call at JB since it has always been my dream airline for as long as I can remember. I've read all the blue books several times (love the story), dumped all my cash into the stock years ago, stopped by the headquarters on my days off, have 4 LOR's from JB pilots and 1 is from a B6 CKA that is a family friend who personally knew the recruiter I spoke with at a job fair. I've applied to 6 consecutive windows, no skeletons, humble attitude, volunteer work, previous regional pilot/recruiter, PIC A320 & 170/190 types with thousands of SIC in type, paid for resume review, no failures and a MBA. I've put all my previous networking efforts into JB and up until recently I may have been one of the few pilots left with a JB app to have never applied to any legacy. I've had conversations with other pilots and feel I was the only soul alive who would happily turn down any legacy offer if given a B6 CJO on the same day.
Now I'm waiting for captain class on the airbus for one of the LCC's wondering if networking really works. I've only had 3 aviation interviews and I recieved the job with all 3 with no networking. I'm sure I will get flamed here for this post especially here on JC but I'm just keeping it real. I'm happy for all those who have had success with networking and I believe it is better vs no networking but I feel it is highly overrated. Just my 2 cents.
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Networking works well. Go to the member announcement section and see how many members on JC that have gotten their new gig because of another JC member.

As far as Job Fairs go....

I know quite a few people that have gotten jobs out of OBAP. I know even more who have gotten jobs who are volunteers at OBAP. One recently has interviewed at United and Jetblue in the las few weeks. He also has an upcoming interview at UPS.

Like @Derg mentioned earlier, you have to make your career search a full time job. You have go make some real connections and keep in contact with them. You have to go to events such as NJC. You have to go to the cocktail parties hosted by United and UPS pilots in the hotel suites at the OBAP conference. You only get about 5 minutes of face time at the Jobs Fair, but you have the entire night at the after hours event!
 
KLB said:
Networking works well. Go to the member announcement section and see how many members on JC that have gotten their new gig because of another JC member.

As far as Job Fairs go....

I know quite a few people that have gotten jobs out of OBAP. I know even more who have gotten jobs who are volunteers at OBAP. One recently has interviewed at United and Jetblue in the las few weeks. He also has an upcoming interview at UPS.

Like @Derg mentioned earlier, you have to make your career search a full time job. You have go make some real connections and keep in contact with them. You have to go to events such as NJC. You have to go to the cocktail parties hosted by United and UPS pilots in the hotel suites at the OBAP conference. You only get about 5 minutes of face time at the Jobs Fair, but you have the entire night at the after hours event!
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This is true.

There are those that have applied, been called for an interview and been selected for employment.

Assume you're not one of those lucky few and bust your ass and I don't necessarily mean a job fair, just getting out there. Your competition is, daily, while you're sitting at home complaining about lack of progress toward your goal.
 
Lunchbox said:
Great advice but I have personally given up on networking. I think there are a few great stories like this one but for most of us networking seems to not be as effective as it was years ago. I did everything imaginable to get a call at JB since it has always been my dream airline for as long as I can remember. I've read all the blue books several times (love the story), dumped all my cash into the stock years ago, stopped by the headquarters on my days off, have 4 LOR's from JB pilots and 1 is from a B6 CKA that is a family friend who personally knew the recruiter I spoke with at a job fair. I've applied to 6 consecutive windows, no skeletons, humble attitude, volunteer work, previous regional pilot/recruiter, PIC A320 & 170/190 types with thousands of SIC in type, paid for resume review, no failures and a MBA. I've put all my previous networking efforts into JB and up until recently I may have been one of the few pilots left with a JB app to have never applied to any legacy. I've had conversations with other pilots and feel I was the only soul alive who would happily turn down any legacy offer if given a B6 CJO on the same day.
Now I'm waiting for captain class on the airbus for one of the LCC's wondering if networking really works. I've only had 3 aviation interviews and I recieved the job with all 3 with no networking. I'm sure I will get flamed here for this post especially here on JC but I'm just keeping it real. I'm happy for all those who have had success with networking and I believe it is better vs no networking but I feel it is highly overrated. Just my 2 cents.
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Where do you live? Are you in Florida?
 
Go to job fairs. Talk to people. Make friends. Hand out those business cards you had made.

Like almost anything in this life, you will get out what you put in. I finished my 4 year degree in December and went to my first job fair in January and my second one will be WAI. I won't stop attending job fairs until I have the job offer I want. It's that simple.

I will get an offer in 2016. That's simply the attitude I choose to have.
 
bLizZuE said:
I will get an offer in 2016. That's simply the attitude I choose to have.
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Because you've made making it to the next level your full time job.

It will happen.

Hell, people don't even have to go to a career fair, per se, just work the bar and/or talk to your friends. There's a heavy probability people you know are chilling out with people you don't, and there's a high probability that those people may be someone who could help you.

Lets say if I was a recruiter, I'd be way happier meeting someone in a casual, relaxed environment where I could drop some F-bombs, drink a well-poured and speak freely rather than adhering to "The Script", standing in a hot-assed uniform, voice about to break and being glared at, nervously, by another 600 people that are next in line.
 
bLizZuE said:
Go to job fairs. Talk to people. Make friends. Hand out those business cards you had made.

Like almost anything in this life, you will get out what you put in. I finished my 4 year degree in December and went to my first job fair in January and my second one will be WAI. I won't stop attending job fairs until I have the job offer I want. It's that simple.

I will get an offer in 2016. That's simply the attitude I choose to have.
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Good attitude to have. If you want something badly enough in life, you need to be willing to put the work in. I'll be attending WAI this year with a JetBlue fast pass. Like many I have applied in several windows with no luck, but it has only made me even hungrier to receive an invitation to Long Island City.

I'm optimistic that a successful meeting with one of their recruiters plus a recent captain upgrade, will get me at least closer to where I want to be.

JetBlue makes you earn it that's for sure.
 
I'll be there Wednesday and Thursday. Would have spent more time but I have a birthday that I can't miss the weekend of WAI.
 
Derg said:
Because you've made making it to the next level your full time job.


Lets say if I was a recruiter, I'd be way happier meeting someone in a casual, relaxed environment where I could drop some F-bombs, drink a well-poured and speak freely rather than adhering to "The Script", standing in a hot-assed uniform, voice about to break and being glared at, nervously, by another 600 people that are next in line.
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So, Vegas?
 
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