WIA worth it?

[Maurus]

United Airlines recruiters are attending a job fair. Do you want to work for United or do you have a casual interest at working for United? What would you consider being 'worth it?'

Shelling out several thousand dollars for an opportunity you are told is bogus by the recruiters is likely not "worth it".

Unless you are super senior, getting a schedule with the days off needed likely will require losing credit hours. The career fair costs $150+ and at least two nights in the hotel can cost $150+ depending on location. Unless you want to risk the money you have already spent it would be a good idea to buy an airline ticket rather than trying to non-rev to a location which you know has tons of pilots attempting to non-rev into. All of this for some fairs where you stand in a line for hours on end and speak to one legacy recruiter for 5 minutes.

Sorry. It isnt as easy as "they show up so you should too!".

The only career fair I am willing to attend is OBAP since they seem to be the most competent. Sadly it is still a great deal of money and it comes with no garauntees or even any sense of progress having been made.

 

[mastermags]

Shelling out several thousand dollars for an opportunity you are told is bogus by the recruiters is likely not "worth it".

Unless you are super senior, getting a schedule with the days off needed likely will require losing credit hours. The career fair costs $150+ and at least two nights in the hotel can cost $150+ depending on location. Unless you want to risk the money you have already spent it would be a good idea to buy an airline ticket rather than trying to non-rev to a location which you know has tons of pilots attempting to non-rev into. All of this for some fairs where you stand in a line for hours on end and speak to one legacy recruiter for 5 minutes.

Sorry. It isnt as easy as "they show up so you should too!".

The only career fair I am willing to attend is OBAP since they seem to be the most competent. Sadly it is still a great deal of money and it comes with no garauntees or even any sense of progress having been made.

So, you just answered the question for yourself... It is not worth a job at United to make the effort and spend the money to attend the job fair. That's fine too.

 

[Maurus]

So, you just answered the question for yourself... It is not worth a job at United to make the effort and spend the money to attend the job fair. That's fine too.

Quite the large leap to assume it will actually get you the job. Unless the recruiters had lied to me at the FFD open house it is a waste of time and money. Every time you leave a fair there is no indication of progress. United told me "you are on the right track". Thanks, I knew that when I went on an intro flight at my flight school.

From what I can tell the recruiters can not help with advice as such to improve your chances. Especially since they don't know the magic formula HR uses in the selection process. You just leave more stressed out than you started.

 

[mastermags]

Quite the large leap to assume it will actually get you the job. Unless the recruiters had lied to me at the FFD open house it is a waste of time and money. Every time you leave a fair there is no indication of progress. United told me "you are on the right track". Thanks, I knew that when I went on an intro flight at my flight school.

That is the most entitled thing I will read on JC today.

 

[Maurus]

That is the most entitled thing I will read on JC today.

Entitled? Dropping a ton of cash does entitle you to at least a hint or some sort of advice to improve your chances. I don't expect a job on the spot. I just want to leave knowing that I actually got some value out of the money and time I had just spent on the fair.

 

[Old Dominion Flyer]

I don't expect a job on the spot. I just want to leave knowing that I actually got some value out of the money and time I had just spent on the fair.

If you're viewing it as a transaction, consider this... You paid your fees to attend and in exchange you received face time with a recruiter. Does that have value to you?



Note: This post is not intended to contain an adversarial tone. Just trying to understand your perspective.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Women in Aviation is about getting more women in aviation and those that are.

OBAP is literally a collection of black aviation professionals.

NGPA is certainly a national association of gay pilots.

Anyone can attend the career fair if one is held. Otherwise, wouldn't it be counterintuitive to say "Whoah partner! You're not gay/black/female, you can't come!"?

At the Arizona Matsuri Festival today in downtown PHX, not everyone was Japanese! It's all good.

Those are fine. At least the money is going to a good noble cause. But there are certain "for profit" job fairs which are a money making scam on pilots who are forced to attend to get noticed. Pilots shouldn't have to pay for this, but alas it gets tossed into the "dues" category for something that has to be done for this career.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That is the most entitled thing I will read on JC today.

mastermags, not really. I know several friends at my prior airline (regional) who were literally told the exact same thing. To "keep it up" and that they were "on the right track." At a paid-job fair, that really does end up being useless. Now I'm not saying it should be a guaranteed interview, but something more than just "on the right track" which sounds almost insulting when the published minimums are ATP and 1,500 hrs.

 

[Maurus]

If you're viewing it as a transaction, consider this...
You paid your fees to attend and in exchange you received face time with a recruiter. Does that have value to you?

Note: This post is not intended to contain an adversarial tone. Just trying to understand your perspective.

It honestly depends on how the recruiter responds during your 5 minutes. Positive or negative I will have at least learned something. Getting a generic unhelpful response after what seemed like a good decent talk left me exactly where I started. Not to mention it was kind of demeening.

 

[mastermags]

Entitled? Dropping a ton of cash does entitle you to at least a hint or some sort of advice to improve your chances. I don't expect a job on the spot. I just want to leave knowing that I actually got some value out of the money and time I had just spent on the fair.

Yes, entitled.

A) A ton of cash? It's $150. You just listed all the reasons that the money could add up to thousands if, you drop a trip, or yada yada, not going to repeat it all, I know what you're getting at. Most of the money covers expenses to the venue, which @Derg can attest to. If you drop a trip, and buy a confirmed seat from the east coast to west coast, and buy a last minute hotel because you missed the last flight home etc, etc, then yes, the costs can add up. But that's on you, not the recruiters. There's a reason why these things travel and do different cities.

B) This is maybe the biggest point, that you are entitled to some sort of special feedback just because you showed up. Have you considered, for liability reasons, that maybe the recruiter did tell a fib about getting extra points for just showing up because they are not allowed to do so? Maybe it really does matter? Or maybe, specifically, it doesn't matter how many job fairs you go to, but that they are tracking you and your progress. Maybe 'you're on the right track' is code for 'wow, you are an ass, and I'm not allowed to say that,' or maybe it really means, 'you're a good guy... You're on the right track. Keep it up.' It's a weird, HR-PC hiring environment we are in these days, but despite that, it is a huge person to person dynamic and human beings are deciding who gets the interviews. 'You are on the right track' could just airline speak for 'thank you, come again...' different meaning per applicant.

 

[mastermags]

mastermags, not really. I know several friends at my prior airline (regional) who were literally told the exact same thing. To "keep it up" and that they were "on the right track." At a paid-job fair, that really does end up being useless. Now I'm not saying it should be a guaranteed interview, but something more than just "on the right track" which sounds almost insulting when the published minimums are ATP and 1,500 hrs.

A) The minimums are ATP and 1500 hours mainly for the military guys who tend to be lower total time but more desirable applicants.

B) One of the biggest lessons I have learned in my life is to get advice from people where you want to be, not where you currently are. If I had listened to all the advice I got over my 8 years of FO time at XJT from XJT captains vs. guys who had left XJET, well, you fill in the narrative. Don't let other people kill your dreams.

3) If you are 'insulted' after getting the chance to speak with legacy or major recruiters because they don't tell you what you want to hear, then, yes, you are entitled.

These companies aren't putting on job fairs for your benefit. They are doing it for themselves. Considering this is the biggest hiring environment since the 60's, somebody is having success at job fairs. Do the best that you can to improve yourself and don't worry about everybody else.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I see your points 1-3 and they are good, but for the last sentence..... If the airlines are doing it for themselves, make the airlines pay for it. Airline pilots shouldn't be paying for job fairs to meet recruiters.

 

[Aero Crew Solutions]

But there are certain "for profit" job fairs which are a money making scam on pilots who are forced to attend to get noticed.

I guess I will respond to your post. First off, nobody forces you to go to a job fair. The choice is yours. You can still get hired by applying online and hoping a recruiter calls you based on your qualifications. Maybe you are not the best candidate online. We are providing a venue where you can meet with a recruiter face to face and sell yourself to prove why you belong. We are doing our best to get every major airline attend our events every time. They just don't have the time or resources to do so.

I am not rolling in the dough from these events. Just ask @Derg or I can show you my $2,700 A/V bill for our upcoming Chicago job fair. I am doing this to help other pilots be successful with their careers. Just ask anyone from the WAI MSP chapter. Last week I did a prep seminar for free and bid a 5 trip so the chapter didn't have to pay for a hotel room.

By hosting job fairs and going to NGPA, WAI and OBAP, I learn a ton of information from the recruiters. I pass this information along to everyone so you get facts and not rumors. There are no membership fees at Aero Crew Solutions. If you have a question, call or email us. It is free.

Stop by our booth at WAI. We are reviewing resumes for free, giving away a free interview prep session every day and will answer any question you may have. We are also hosting the WAI Career Development Seminar on Wednesday night from 7-9:30 PM. It is free for everyone to attend. Good luck.

 

[LargeMarge]

No, save your money.

 

[derg]

Quite the large leap to assume it will actually get you the job. Unless the recruiters had lied to me at the FFD open house it is a waste of time and money. Every time you leave a fair there is no indication of progress. United told me "you are on the right track". Thanks, I knew that when I went on an intro flight at my flight school.

From what I can tell the recruiters can not help with advice as such to improve your chances. Especially since they don't know the magic formula HR uses in the selection process. You just leave more stressed out than you started.

This would be considered factually incorrect.

 

[derg]

I am not rolling in the dough from these events. Just ask @Derg or I can show you my $2,700 A/V bill for our upcoming Chicago job fair. I am doing this to help other pilots be successful with their careers. Just ask anyone from the WAI MSP chapter. Last week I did a prep seminar for free and bid a 5 trip so the chapter didn't have to pay for a hotel room.

Knowing what I learned after 2010, hot dang, anything short of a 1980's-style "DeLorean Financing Package", I don't know how you do it. I'm having flashbacks of dropping $30,000-plus, out of pocket, and simply hoping to break even.

Which I didn't. By far.

By hosting job fairs and going to NGPA, WAI and OBAP, I learn a ton of information from the recruiters. I pass this information along to everyone so you get facts and not rumors. There are no membership fees at Aero Crew Solutions. If you have a question, call or email us. It is free.

Stop by our booth at WAI. We are reviewing resumes for free, giving away a free interview prep session every day and will answer any question you may have. We are also hosting the WAI Career Development Seminar on Wednesday night from 7-9:30 PM. It is free for everyone to attend. Good luck.

I always tell guys to work the bar if they don't have the loot for a career fair and just try their best to run out of business cards.

During OBAP, I was chilling out with the entire Virgin America, JetBlue and FedEx recruitment team near those couches way in the back, just shooting the breeze, everyone in civilian clothes, casual, sharing some laughs and some adult beverages. If someone wanted to work for one of the four carriers would have had the networking opportunity of a lifetime.

My advice is always to actively seek out networking opportunities, daily. Make finding a next-level job your full time job. I know people have families, personal commitments, yadda yadda yadda, that's not going to be any different for the rest of your career and, in fact, as you grow older, it gets far far more challenging.

I don't know how many guys will be sitting three tables away in the DTW food court, bitching about how they've made no progress at SouthernJets or have any internal recommendations when I'm sitting there in full uniform eating a taco salad that I'd be more than happy to answer a question or at least establish some sort of professional correspondence.

People are always full of "want", but not many are full of… well… "action".

 

[Nark]

@Derg so there I was in Indianapolis, looking for a seat so I could chow down on my burrito. It was a mad rush with no open tables. There was a dude with some eppaulettes on.
"Mind if I sit with you sir?"
"Don't call me sir, jarhead... Have a seat..."
...Small talk-small talk-small talk...
"You going to sun and fun next week? No way, so am I" look for this (very recognizable) airplane, come say hi."

So I did.
I now have another recommendation at a very large 737 operator, should I chose to cash it in.

Gents: you make your destiny.

 

[derg]

@Derg so there I was in Indianpolis, looking for a seat so I could chow down on my burrito. It was a mad rush with no open tables. There was a dude with some eppaulettes on.
"Mind if I sit with you sir?"
"Don't call me sir, jarhead... Have a seat..."
...Small talk-small talk-small talk...
"You going to sun and fun next week? No way, so am I" look for this (very recognizable) airplane, come say hi."

So I did.
I now have another recommendation at a very large 737 operator, should I chose to cash it in.

Gents: you make your destiny.

That's exactly how it works.

 

[LargeMarge]

No, save your money

 

[BobDDuck]

No, save your money

But to be serious...

I attended 3 job fairs (the right way... with networking OUTSIDE of the official event) and while it may have helped, I didn't get an interview with any of the carriers I spoke with during (and around) the events. That said, just because it didn't do anything for me it may very well work for somebody else and in my mind, even the CHANCE of speeding up (seniority is everything dawg!!! lolzz!) the process seems worth the cost in my mind.