Why would you work for "them"?

M

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
I just cant understand why pilots work for companies that set the bar so damn low. I hear justifying reasons like QOL, base, blah, blah arguments but dont think they possess true validity with respect to the profession as a whole.

Thank you for listening.
 
some people are ego-centric and think the whole world revolves around them. some people aren't that bright and do what is easy vs. what is right.

you can't change the world, so give in to the scotch.
 
meritflyer said:
I just cant understand why pilots work for companies that set the bar so damn low. I hear justifying reasons like QOL, base, blah, blah arguments but dont think they possess true validity with respect to the profession as a whole.

Thank you for listening.
Click to expand...

Been thinking about this a bit lately...

People do what is necessary and acceptable to them, right?

The difference between you (this sort of applies to me, but I'm not as far along in changing careers with a whopping 3.7 logged) and some of "them" is that you've had a job, career which afforded a certain standard of living and raised your personal bar, so to speak, on what you're willing to do and not do.

Not all, but some of the fresh-faced young pilots haven't had a career or job outside of aviation, so they view ANY entry-level job as something they're willing to toil through, regardless of consequences, as a means to their personal ends.

In other, shorter, simpler words, their mileage varies. :)
 
Two reasons: 1) Because some feel that being underemployed as a pilot is better than being not employed as a pilot. 2) They all think that they are that 1 in 100 that is going to fly for the majors, so they are just biding their time.
 
Didn't you initially accept an offer from Mesa? The remaining is based that you did:

I know you are NOT there, but if you did, what made you decide to apply and then accept the offer? I'm glad you decided not too, but something made you do it in the first place. Please tell us, as this was a good learning experience (and I really mean that).

People decide what they think is best for them. The problem is some don't look at the bigger picture, they are willing to do what they have to do advance their career. Seen it before in other industries. Bet you have too.
 
because maybe the other ones didn't offer them the job? they want to stay near home?

who knows
 
Alright folks, I know we all have massive testicular fortitude, but we shouldn't necessarily display it.
 
meritflyer said:
I just cant understand why pilots work for companies that set the bar so damn low. I hear justifying reasons like QOL, base, blah, blah arguments but dont think they possess true validity with respect to the profession as a whole.

Thank you for listening.
Click to expand...

Eh, we're trying damn hard to get that bar raised. In fact....strike ballots are probably in the mail by now.

Anyway, here was my reasoning for going to PCL over XJT. Sorry, it's all "me" based, so those that don't like it will just have to get over it. I didn't really want to commute, COL is cheap in MEM, my family is here, my wife's family is about an hour away, reserve time was shorter and I didn't want to commute. Sure, I'd probably make more money at XJT, but it would get worn away spending it on food eating out when I'm not at home, a crashpad or hotels and other expenses associated with commuting. So, in the end, I would have been bringing home roughly the same amount and losing multiple days off a month going to and from work.

If putting my family first is lowering the bar, than I can live with that.
 
We're asking the wrong questions here. The problems in this industry aren't the result of pilots going to work at companies like Mesa, Pinnacle, etc.... The problems only come in when the pilots aren't willing to fight to improve things at these airlines. At Mesa, there seems to be a pervasive apathy among the pilot group that continues to hold them back. The problem isn't that pilots are going to work there, the problem is that once they get there, they aren't doing anything to fight to improve their situation. If someone wants to go to Mesa or anywhere else that people consider to be "substandard," then I have no problem with it as long as they are prepared to fight to make things better. If you go there and then become one of the apathetic losers, then you're part of the problem. If you go there and volunteer your time to the Association, fly the contract, and push your fellow pilots to stand up for themselves, then you're a net benefit to the profession, even though you did go to a substandard company.

Disclaimer: The above doesn't apply to pseudo-scab operations such as GoJet and Skybus.
 
"Disclaimer: The above doesn't apply to pseudo-scab operations such as GoJet and Skybus."

...and Gulfstream. Right PCL? ;)
 
meritflyer said:
I just cant understand why pilots work for companies that set the bar so damn low. I hear justifying reasons like QOL, base, blah, blah arguments but dont think they possess true validity with respect to the profession as a whole.

Thank you for listening.
Click to expand...

Your opinions change as you mature in the industry. Now you can not understand why a person would want to work at these low ball places, but just a few months ago that would have been you, had it not been for jetcareers (then again, you may have been smart enough to come to that decision on your own). It is really hard for any one who has been in the industry for a while (even for a short time) to remember what it felt like to be really low time and looking for that first good job. It is kind of like looking back on your younger years and not being able to understand why you did so many stupid things. Right now any regional, even one as good at xjet, has the bar set too low for my personal preference, but a year ago I am sure I would have jumped at the chance to work for them. Hopefully I am not too far off base.

Alex.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
Didn't you initially accept an offer from Mesa? The remaining is based that you did:

I know you are NOT there, but if you did, what made you decide to apply and then accept the offer? I'm glad you decided not too, but something made you do it in the first place. Please tell us, as this was a good learning experience (and I really mean that).

People decide what they think is best for them. The problem is some don't look at the bigger picture, they are willing to do what they have to do advance their career. Seen it before in other industries. Bet you have too.
Click to expand...

Was I ever employed by Mesa? No.

Did I attend class? No.

Did I apply? No. A friend of mine who was in class gave them my number. They called me.

Why did I attend? Was encouraged by a certain XJT pilot to go get the interview experience.

Did I interview and accept it on the spot? Yes. Would've rather accepted it and thought about it than said no.

Was it a learning experience? Yes. The interview at Mesa was much harder than XJT.

Do I support Mesa? Not one bit. I hope they're gone sooner than later.

Is it relevant to this conversation? I personally dont think so. An interview doesn't mean squat. Putting on the uniform and supporting "their" cause is something different.
 
killbilly said:
Been thinking about this a bit lately...

People do what is necessary and acceptable to them, right?

The difference between you (this sort of applies to me, but I'm not as far along in changing careers with a whopping 3.7 logged) and some of "them" is that you've had a job, career which afforded a certain standard of living and raised your personal bar, so to speak, on what you're willing to do and not do.

Not all, but some of the fresh-faced young pilots haven't had a career or job outside of aviation, so they view ANY entry-level job as something they're willing to toil through, regardless of consequences, as a means to their personal ends.

In other, shorter, simpler words, their mileage varies. :)
Click to expand...

Well said, no doubt.

It's the new guys supporting the BS companies who keep setting the bar lower and lower with work rules and pay. In turn, the companies who actually pay their employees a half decent wage and adhere to good working conditions are the ones that suffer as they can't compete with the price • of the industry hence driving the bar lower.

This is the very reason Velo has such strong feelings about jetBlue, Virgin, Skybus, and others. They drive the bar to the bottom. Good carriers have to compete and ultimately lose.

It affects us all in a negative way.
 
Folks, it's "ok" to evolve as you progress through the profession.

His prospective changed, good! It's going to.
 
It's all well and good to have your opinion evolve and change. However, what is NOT ok (and I'm not saying this is what happened here) is to point fingers at those that work at "those" places. And by those I mean the places that while they might not be great AREN'T actively brining the industry down like Skybus, Virgin, GoJets and Gulfstream. Just because Mesa treats their employees like crap does not give anybody else the right to question a person for going there. Sure, bash the company all you want, but as long as that person is making it work for them, it really doesn't matter. SO many people are so quick to defend their regional (err... company) against any negatives and yet are just as quick to question somebody's choice for going somewhere else. Again, as much as it may sound it, I'm not directly referring to Merit's post here. Just in general.
 
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