Why wear the monkey suit?

I'm often asked, why do former military guys get great gigs in the non-121 world when they aren't always the best candidates. Part of my answer is they look and dress the part, even when they don't wear a uniform. I don't want to overshoot the mark but appearance is an element of professionalism.

As far as the airlines go, they want uniformity and a professional appearance. They set the standard. Is a tie and jacket the best functional apparel? Hell, the first thing you do is remove the jacket so aren't we just bitching about wearing a tie? Yes, I think short-sleeved dress shirts look silly, but if that's part of the job, it's not a big deal.

That said, I think the airlines would be well served to have two uniforms, a "dress" uniform (tie and jacket) and a "service" uniform (long and short sleeves, open collar, wings, collar devices, leather flight jacket. Let the individual choose. This would eliminate most of the crew complaints.


I am not required to wear a uniform but I have de facto uniforms. Depending on the formality of the flight, I wear a suit, blue blazer and tie, or in the heat of the Middle East or North Africa, I might wear pressed khakis and a white polo, unless the flight is a diplomatic or dressy affair.
 
killbilly said:
Like defending how inferior MU-2 pilots are.

/duck
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klemperer.jpg


HOGAN!
 
I want CVRs for every flight to be made public, and if I meet you in person be aware that my iPhone is probably recording your every word. I wonder why my friends don't like me?
 
Okay….I rarely have the desire to get involved in such an inane discussion, but exactly how many threads are we going to have on this subject? Every few months, someone starts another. Both sides chime in. Nothing is ever resolved. No matter what “side” you are on, you are not going to change the mind of someone on the opposite “side”.

In that vein, no matter what true or sound reasons are given by those who have no real issues with a company uniform, someone will always come up with something to denigrate that reason and they will never accept it. This makes the discussion rather pointless after a time. There is simply no good rationale to make fun of a pilot who wears a uniform or make up silly names for said uniform. How childish is this? What is that supposed to accomplish exactly? It's just foolish.

With all of that being said, no matter if you agree or not, here is what I believe/know. Taking into account that I am old school…..Major carriers (all of them) brand their name. Part of that branding is requiring uniforms for many of their employees, especially their pilots and cabin crews and they have written standards for those policies regarding uniforms which must be adhered to. That is a fact. It’s not really up for a pointless/inane debate. If you have a problem with this, call or write their corporate headquarters and/or be sure and bring it up on any interview you may have with one of them in the future and see how well it goes for you.

The wearing of the uniform has a long tradition and history, like it or not. It was and still is, something to be worn with pride, yes pride, not ego (big difference) because you had spent many years, a lot of money and hard work to earn those wings and the uniform that accompanied them. It meant something of value and still does to some pilots. It is not something to be chided about or embarrassed over for crap’s sake.

And those who don’t understand how important the uniforms that every joe public has ingrained in their tiny minds are, during any type of issue before, during or after a flight – mechanical, medical, any pax issue, an issue with the aircraft or the wx or during a serious emergency and/or evacuation, to calm pax, to have them pay attention and follow your instructions, to trust you, is kidding themselves, because it does matter. It does inspire a certain amount of confidence and respect in the crew by joe public, no matter what you as a pilot, believe.

If you don’t think that you are not judged or viewed as “professional” or ”non-professional” by joe public (or even your peers) based on how you present yourself in the terminal, on the plane, etc., think again. No matter how “silly” you may view this, it exists/happens and it reflects on not only yourself, but the company you work for. Attitude is not just something that is held inside, it is also visible.

The uniform gives you in appearance the look of a professional and the look of authority. Again if those two things are meaningless to you, or you don't think it matters or has this effect, oh well, because it does. It’s also a slight psychological edge.

Someone above mentioned Juan Trippe. Because Pan Am had so many former military members in their flight crews, a military standard type of uniform was modified and adapted into the civil aviation role. I don’t personally see this as something negative, but rather a historic fact and a tradition. All carriers followed this example. Even when DAL acquired part of Pan Am, they adopted those uniforms and only changed the hat color to black. Agree or not, the PA uniforms were classy. Much of the commercial pilot’s uniform and titles such as Captain, First Officer, Steward/Stewardess and Purser and naming of the first Clipper ships flown by the carriers, (hell, even calling an aircraft a ship) harken back to the Navy and Merchant Marines. I have no idea why someone gets their ass in an uproar about this either.

Certainly there must be more important issues to deal with and be concerned in regards to your career. If not, then you have other issues to address and/or just like to troll/argue/drone on about stupid things, endlessly.

That being said, whatever the uniform requirements are, stop whining like a petulant 3 year old, giving the neener neener to your peers, have a uniform that is clean, well fitting, pressed, with all of it components and wear it happily while you get to do a job that only a tiny fraction of the public will ever perform and enjoy the damn view up front.


End of rant.
 
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A Life Aloft said:
No matter what “side” you are on, you are not going to change the mind of someone on the opposite “side”...There is simply no good rationale to make fun of a pilot who wears a uniform or make up silly names for said uniform. How childish is this? What is that supposed to accomplish exactly? It's just foolish...stop whining like a petulant 3 year old
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Ok, so essentially "this is a pointless discussion but you're wrong er also namecalling is childish, you big jerkface!"

Got it.

How about this: If you find the conversation objectionable, don't read it.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Ok, so essentially "this is a pointless discussion but you're wrong er also namecalling is childish, you big jerkface!"

Got it.

How about this: If you find the conversation objectionable, don't read it.
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I find your face objectionable.


I agree with you too. But I'm capable of independent thought, so that makes me an outlier....
 
A Life Aloft said:
Someone above mentioned Juan Trippe. Because Pan Am had so many former military members in their flight crews, a military standard type of uniform was modified and adapted into the civil aviation role. I don’t personally see this as something negative, but rather a historic fact and a tradition. All carriers followed this example. Even when DAL acquired part of Pan Am, they adopted those uniforms and only changed the hat color to black. Agree or not, the PA uniforms were classy. Much of the commercial pilot’s uniform and titles such as Captain, First Officer, Steward/Stewardess and Purser and naming of the first Clipper ships flown by the carriers, (hell, even calling a aircraft a ship) harken back to the Navy and Merchant Marine. I have no idea why someone gets their ass in an uproar about this either.

...

End of rant.
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And a good rant it was, too! :)

I mentioned that because, as I understand it, that IS the origin of it. Pan Am flew flying boats and its pilots (er... "Masters of Ocean Flying Boats") wore nautical styled uniforms, before that the common garb was more equestrian in nature ;).

My current uniform is slacks and a polo, unless its hot out since our airplanes don't have air conditioning. I'm fine with it, I'm fine with anything really. Until we're all wearing spacesuits I guess we ought to wear something... although if getting pax attention is the key, then maybe we ought to wear nothing :p
 
A Life Aloft said:
Okay….I rarely have the desire to get involved in such an inane discussion, but exactly how many threads are we going to have on this subject? Every few months, someone starts another. Both sides chime in. Nothing is ever resolved. No matter what “side” you are on, you are not going to change the mind of someone on the opposite “side”.

In that vein, no matter what true or sound reasons are given by those who have no real issues with a company uniform, someone will always come up with something to denigrate that reason and they will never accept it. This makes the discussion rather pointless after a time. There is simply no good rationale to make fun of a pilot who wears a uniform or make up silly names for said uniform. How childish is this? What is that supposed to accomplish exactly? It's just foolish.

With all of that being said, no matter if you agree or not, here is what I believe/know. Taking into account that I am old school…..Major carriers brand their name. Part of that branding is requiring uniforms for many of their employees, especially their pilots and cabin crews and they have written standards for those policies regarding uniforms which must be adhered to. That is a fact. It’s not really up for a pointless/inane debate. If you have a problem with this, call or write their corporate headquarters and/or be sure and bring it up on any interview you may have with one of them in the future and see how well it goes for you.

The wearing of the uniform has a long tradition and history, like it or not. It was and still is, something to be worn with pride, yes pride, not ego (big difference) because you had spent many years, a lot of money and hard work to earn those wings and the uniform that accompanied them. It meant something of value and still does to some pilots. It is not something to be chided about or embarrassed over for crap’s sake.

And those who don’t understand how important the uniforms that every joe public has ingrained in their tiny minds are, during any type of issue before, during or after a flight – mechanical, medical, any pax issue, an issue with the aircraft or the wx or during a serious emergency and/or evacuation, to calm pax, to have them pay attention and follow your instructions, to trust you, is kidding themselves, because it does matter. It does inspire a certain amount of confidence in the crew by joe public, no matter what you as a pilot, think.

If you don’t think you are not judged or viewed as “professional” or ”non-professional” by joe public (or even your peers) based on how you present yourself in the terminal, on the plane, etc., think again. No matter how “silly” you may view this, it exists/happens and it reflects on not only yourself, but the company you work for. Attitude is not just something that is held inside, it is also visible.

The uniform gives you in appearance the look of a professional and the look of authority. Again if those two things are meaningless to you, or you don't think it matters or has this effect, oh well, because it does. It’s also a slight psychological edge.

Someone above mentioned Juan Trippe. Because Pan Am had so many former military members in their flight crews, a military standard type of uniform was modified and adapted into the civil aviation role. I don’t personally see this as something negative, but rather a historic fact and a tradition. All carriers followed this example. Even when DAL acquired part of Pan Am, they adopted those uniforms and only changed the hat color to black. Agree or not, the PA uniforms were classy. Much of the commercial pilot’s uniform and titles such as Captain, First Officer, Steward/Stewardess and Purser and naming of the first Clipper ships flown by the carriers, (hell, even calling a aircraft a ship) harken back to the Navy and Merchant Marine. I have no idea why someone gets their ass in an uproar about this either.

Certainly there must be more important issues to deal with and be concerned in regards to your career. If not, then you have other issues to address and/or just like to troll/argue/drone on about stupid things, endlessly.

That being said, whatever the uniform requirements are, stop whining like a petulant 3 year old, giving the neener neener to your peers, have a uniform that is clean, well fitting, pressed, with all of it components and wear it happily while you get to do a job that only a tiny fraction of the public will ever perform and enjoy the damn view up front.


End of rant.
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srcstc.gif
 
B200 Hawk said:
It's the 21st century, khakis and a nice company polo with a north face style winter jacket should be all that's needed now. This isn't the golden age, no one cares. Besides I would be a cleaner look anyway. It's uncomfortable and too expensive. Most people like more unprofessional trying to look professional in the suit. Let's do away with them!
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A lot of it depends on where you're applying, what job you're applying for, and the industry you're applying in.

I was specifically told not to wear a suit by the hiring manager for the last job I had. I showed up in jeans and a polo shirt and got the job. I also interviewed for another position and got an offer when I wore a suit but didn't wear a tie.

But those were jobs at tech companies, which are notorious for casual dress and it was in San Diego, which is a pretty casual city.

Would I have shown up for an interview like that in a more conservative city for a position at a more conservative company? Hell no.
 
mshunter said:
You don't work over here, so you don't know all about the in fighting that's going on over here. I don't consider myself ExpressJet. I consider myself ASA, and I'm proud of it.

So no, I'm not. Hell, even hotels know the deference. Most of them still call us ASA.
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Yup. Unless the hotel doesn't know who that is.
 
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