Why so few collegiate Sport Pilot Programs?

K

ktsai91

Well-Known Member
The only university I know that used LSAs for a Sport Pilot Program is Florida Institute of Technology. Thats it. I want to know why can't universities use LSAs for flight training.
 
I'll take a couple of guesses.

First, most universities are geared for more a professional experience direction in their training. Sport pilot would just be an unneeded step and waste of money. Most people in a collegiate environment are working towards flying around big iron for a living...not tootling around in Cubs on the weekend. Ok maybe they can make it an elective?

Secondly, Most universities are not equipped with LSAs. So in order to offer Sport Pilot instruction they would have to purchase new equipment that probably would not get used all that much. See number 1, most people in a collegiate environment are doing aviation for career purposes, Not hobby reasons.
 
I think, also, that Sport Pilot Cert appeals to a much smaller demographic than a standard private. It is a very limiting certificate.
 
First of all... many places , especially in Texas use the LSA aircraft for their programs. The are WAY more fuel efficient, AND can be used all the way up in traning. You can do Private Pilot training in a light sport airplane, same with commercial. I know a student that took his Commercial license in a LSA because the cessnas were expensive. Yes.. he did the Multi Commercial, and the Multi was his complex, and did the rest of the single engine requirements for his ASEL/AMEL commercial in the LSA.

I used to give LSA a bad rap as well.. But been instructing it for along time at a major school and we use them all the time!

I know for a fact that colleges like the above post "Stay away from LSA" mainly because they DO NOT UNDERSTAND LSA and what it can do. You can get your LSA license, and then use those hours to count towards your private, because esentailly it is the same thing. The only thing is no night flying and two you cant fly more than 50miles away from your home base. However, yes, MOST collegiate level programs already have a fleet of metal and they dont want to either buy more planes or can't afford anything else at the moment. LSAs are on the rise, thats a fact, and the training places are on the rise as well. So far LSA has taken off more than the Recreational Program did.

Mainly long story- to answer your question- as the above post.-- Yes. most Collegiate places don't want to mess with it cause they think its a waste, yet, it could be beneficial to their program as a "starter", but they just dont understand LSA, so they discredit it and move on.
 
but Dowling College not only has a Professional Pilot Minor but also an Executive Pilot Minor meaning that pilots who take this minor get a PPL with and instrument rating. I don't see why not Dowling should go for the SPL training.
 
BTAcola said:
I know for a fact that colleges like the above post "Stay away from LSA" mainly because they DO NOT UNDERSTAND LSA and what it can do. You can get your LSA license, and then use those hours to count towards your private, because esentailly it is the same thing. The only thing is no night flying and two you cant fly more than 50miles away from your home base. However, yes, MOST collegiate level programs already have a fleet of metal and they dont want to either buy more planes or can't afford anything else at the moment. LSAs are on the rise, thats a fact, and the training places are on the rise as well. So far LSA has taken off more than the Recreational Program did.
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Eh, your right on the no night flying, but a sport pilot can fly cross country as much as they desire, as long as the weather is within the limitations.

But, in general, I think that college's aren't in the LSA business yet, because they are just too new. I'd bet a decent sum of money that when ERAU goes to look at replacing the current 172 fleet, a large portion is replaced by a LSA, most likely the Cessna 162 Skycatcher (aka Groundcatcher). Just on a aquistion costs, operating costs and everything. Heck, they may even pass on the reduction in costs to the student.
 
ktsai91 said:
I thought sport pilot route is the cheapest form of flying available.
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Getting your sport pilot through a University would be an enormous waste of money. Think about it-universities typically charge $20+ more per hour for dual instruction than FBOs. And you're getting the sport pilot to SAVE money.
 
So far correct. I stand corrected, i was referencing Rec. pilot only being able to fly 50+ miles away.. so ya i screwed that one up! haha

But as for sport... its possible that the Universities could do it as a pre rec for private, because YOU CAN USE THE SPORT TIME to count towards the private... it wouldnt be a WASTE of time, becuase its all TT anyways..

Just my .04
 
BTAcola said:
So far correct. I stand corrected, i was referencing Rec. pilot only being able to fly 50+ miles away.. so ya i screwed that one up! haha

But as for sport... its possible that the Universities could do it as a pre rec for private, because YOU CAN USE THE SPORT TIME to count towards the private... it wouldnt be a WASTE of time, becuase its all TT anyways..

Just my .04
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You'll never see them go to the Sport pilot certificate before the private. When it comes down to it, your never going to be able to lower that 20 TT for a sport certificate through part 141. So compare 20 hours versus 35 in a 141 environment. The non-pilot factory schools that have flight programs could teach the sport pilot certificate, as a way to boost business. I think you could market a sport pilot certificate for $4,000. That said, they will pick up the LSA's to teach private in, just on basis of operating costs.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
The non-pilot factory schools that have flight programs could teach the sport pilot certificate, as a way to boost business. I think you could market a sport pilot certificate for $4,000.
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Good luck finding CFIs willing to sign someone off for a pilot certificate with only 20 hours of flight time (and not all of that dual). I don't think that many people are willing to put their name and certificates on someone with so little experience.
 
floridaCFII said:
Good luck finding CFIs willing to sign someone off for a pilot certificate with only 20 hours of flight time (and not all of that dual). I don't think that many people are willing to put their name and certificates on someone with so little experience.
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I'm not saying its likely, but it is possible. Surely 30 hours would be reasonable, considering the differences in X/C for sport pilots vs private pilots, and the lack of night flying. Its going to vary from person to person, but if somebody is sharp, I don't see a reason somebody couldn't be done by 25-30 hours.
 
floridaCFII said:
Good luck finding CFIs willing to sign someone off for a pilot certificate with only 20 hours of flight time (and not all of that dual). I don't think that many people are willing to put their name and certificates on someone with so little experience.
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I am one CFI that would. In theory, if someone can show me competence, AND they are safe aviators, I don't really care how many hours they have (assuming FAA minimums yadda yadda yadda). That being said, the reality is, in my experience I haven't encountered any student that has the intuition, knowledge and skills that I think would be ready for a checkride @ 20 hours TT. Each person is an individual. I'm just saying that I wouldn't pre-judge anyone.

I second the comments about TT being TT; LSA or multi. Skill-wise I'd bet the equivalent houred low time tailwheel LSA pilot has it over the equivalent timed complex multi pilot.
 
Ive signed off 3 LSA pilots, you must not trust yourself as a CFI then if you can't sign someone off without worrying about your OWN licenses... everything I do with paperwork is CYA, training is training buddy.

Good luck to ya.. AND your students!
 
BTAcola said:
Ive signed off 3 LSA pilots, you must not trust yourself as a CFI then if you can't sign someone off without worrying about your OWN licenses... everything I do with paperwork is CYA, training is training buddy.

Good luck to ya.. AND your students!
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Has nothing to do with self trust or worry about my own licenses (you mean certificates I think). PTS is a minimum competence level. I could train a monkey to fly in short order but it takes a little longer get him to talk on the radio. Oh yeah, there's also that thinking thing too. Depends on your goals; pilot mill or student training.
 
CDNPilotDave said:
Has nothing to do with self trust or worry about my own licenses (you mean certificates I think). PTS is a minimum competence level. I could train a monkey to fly in short order but it takes a little longer get him to talk on the radio. Oh yeah, there's also that thinking thing too. Depends on your goals; pilot mill or student training.
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student training is my goal... fyi from another thread a long time ago.. i will not say my total time, but lets say its pretty high time dual given... and over 4 years a 100% pass rate on 20+ students on any checkride or written exam... now with that said.. if you can give GREAT instruction to a student in 20hours for sport pilot, they can be GREAT pilots... ive done one LSA that had 20-25hrs if I remember... the rest have all been around 30ish if not 35... 20 is the minimum required by the FAA, sport is ALMOST... ALMOST just like private pilot. So if you have a great student that is ready for their checkride at 40hrs, wouldnt you sign them off as well????

Same goes for sport.. if they have great knowledge and do their homework.. why not sign them off at 20 if they met the standards??? PTS is there for a reason as you stated. MINIMUM, but the fact is, if you spend your time and teach them all the time like we are supposed to be doing, you can accomplish TONS in 20hrs., let alone 40. Do i agree that sport pilots and private pilots have a HUGE lack of experience at under 50hrs if they are going to jsut up and jet across the us in their 100hp rotax engine, YOU BET... but if they are trained properly and UNDERSTAND their limitations, they will be great!

My old quote: Limitations without understanding them is what gets you killed, students who know and UNDERSTAND them are a different story.

By limitaitons I dont mean what you write on their endorsements.. thats only a part.. i mean. their OWN personal limitations... hazardous attitudes... etc etc...
 
Oh... and if your going to be that guy that goes on about is it a certificate or a license... just because of the wording... then

WOW

is the only word for that. Is it a certificate, you bet... is it a rating... you bet... is it a license... YOU BET!
 
I would venture to say that most collegiate programs don't fly LSA's because of costs. Initial costs. While LSA's are more fuel efficient than most types, they are really expensive to purchase. Also, not too many owners exist for a single type in one geographic area where a major program can have leasebacks such as we see with Cessna or Piper products. The high purchase costs of LSA's seems to be the major drawback. Planes cost almost as much as regular planes.
 
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