Why no PT?

bucksmith

bucksmith

Did you lock the doors?
Ok here is a good one, please refer to the app plate included http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1009/06500G31.PDF
could someone explain why there is "NoPT" printed for the left and right base TAA's (on the MSA graphic) ...what are they suggesting there? It can't be a redundant statement, we already know there is NoPT from EGMIC and NOQAZ...Are they suggesting that NoPT is required if you proceed direct to OMGEY from the northwest? Looking forward to the answer :confused:
 
I would totally typed everything we talked about today here in the office, but I don't think I can remember everything! Plus me typing this is helping bump up the post number :rawk:

HAHA :beer:
 
I'm not certain on this... But isn't it because there's a 1 minute hold in lieu of procedure turn when starting the approach at OMGEY from the west? If you start at NOQAZ or EGMIC then you don't need the hold. Also, if you go to OMGEY from the east, you fall within the NoPT segment that's shown in the upper right.
 
It's not only a redundant statement, but it repeats itself.

Actually what happens if you're cleared direct EGMIC on a 225° track (approaching from the NE)? Had the leg from EGMIC to OMGEY not been labeled NoPT, I'm thinking that *technically* you'd have to do it since you're not on a specific part of the approach that wasn't labeled NoPT. The half circle to the right is for approaching OMGEY, the bottom one is NOQAZ, and the top one is EGMIC but only from the north and west.
 
It looks like if you're coming from the NW you would be going direct to EGMIC. It very well could be a bit of redundancy because they really don't want you to go direct to OGMEY, but would rather you go to EGMIC because it is much safer than trying the hold at OGMEY.

Just my $.02 that I can't afford anyways
 
It's not redundant. Read the FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook for a good clarification on this (page 5-39). When there is a "No PT" put on the chart the turn in the hold is not permitted, so they need to print that. The caveat with that is that if you are held too high, and you know you need to lose some altitude to get to down to the IAF altitude, just ask ATC for a turn in the hold.

TAA's great because it allow the pilot do everything. It even says in the manual that they have "minimal ATC interaction". So if you're cleared approach, the fact that NoPT exists there means that you should just proceed straight on the approach.
 
Ophir said:
It's not redundant. Read the FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook for a good clarification on this (page 5-39). When there is a "No PT" put on the chart the turn in the hold is not permitted, so they need to print that.
Click to expand...
What in the IPH discussion makes "No PT required or permitted when approaching EGMIC IAF from the northwest quadrant" non-redundant with "No PT required or permitted when using EGMIC as the IAF?

I'm no TERPS or IAP design guru (aren't there any here??!!!), but I think it's a simple matter of the TAA approach sector symbols being in a standard format and showing NoPT when applicable, whether or not the sector leads to an IAP that is itself a NoPT IAP (no matter where you are coming from).

In this particular approach my WAG is that the sector symbols are there primarily for the altitude information and once there are in the standard format.
 
I guess I misread your first post, sorry. If you read the Instrument Procedures Handbook, page 5-45, they talk about this.
"Where possible,
TAAs are developed as a basic “T” shape that is divided
into three separate arrival areas around the head of the
“T”: left base, right base, and straight-in. Typically, the
TAA offers an IAF at each of these three arrival areas
that are 3-6 NM from an IF, which often doubles as the
IAF for straight-in approaches"
Click to expand...

So you could be cleared direct OMGEY, cleared approach, and you would be expected to make the course reversal as depicted, but this would only happen if you coming from the west. Honestly, what it provides it an option for the pilot. The controller will ask you what approach you'd like and you can request direct OMGEY for the approach. You could also request direct to other other fixes to a go in NoPT (they may be on a feeder route, dunno.) So long at is show IAF, you can request it as your initial and the controller can give it to you.
 
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