Why I Left an Airline Pilot Career

Yeah, but if you weren't working, you're the kind of person who would be traveling anyway. Not everybody likes to be on the road all the time.
Not everybody should be a pilot.
What you wrote is "imma doctor/truck driver/pastry chef and I hate my job because I can't stand blood/driving/sugar". Well, chit son, go find a job you will enjoy, not the job's problem that it involves dealing with the things you can't stand.
Are you trying to advocate removing blood/driving/sugar from the said jobs? Or convincing people that do those jobs that they should quit like you did?

Option 1
Here's what I like/here's what I dislike, know what you are getting into, byeee.

Option 2
Validate me being smart to quit. Go!
 
Not everybody should be a pilot.
What you wrote is "imma doctor/truck driver/pastry chef and I hate my job because I can't stand blood/driving/sugar". Well, chit son, go find a job you will enjoy, not the job's problem that it involves dealing with the things you can't stand.
Are you trying to advocate removing blood/driving/sugar from the said jobs? Or convincing people that do those jobs that they should quit like you did?

Option 1
Here's what I like/here's what I dislike, know what you are getting into, byeee.

Option 2
Validate me being smart to quit. Go!

I think I've been pretty clear that my only goal is to make sure that people who haven't already taken the plunge put a LOT of thought into it and make absolutely sure that it's what they want. People have a romanticized view of it all that isn't accurate.
 
I think I've been pretty clear that my only goal is to make sure that people who haven't already taken the plunge put a LOT of thought into it and make absolutely sure that it's what they want. People have a romanticized view of it all that isn't accurate.
All of this I wholeheartedly agree with.

I did my fair share of splaining to a CFI who can't survive on CFI pay and ZOMG the cadet program at ZW is no more and his life is over at a ripe age of 21yo because he was gonna be there next year, CA at 23 and at UAL by 26. Unrolling my eyes was a hurtful process, so far up (or, rather, back) they were.

Just don't get the connection between this and comparing $$$ with doctors and lawyers. Yeah, we should be paid better. Agree. As a regional FO double agree. Would I trade jobs with that lawyer though? Hell no. I want my job to be better, not work someone else's job.

PS Those that are miserable in the industry should absolutely go do whatever else might make them happy. "Being too invested" is an excuse that needs to be taken to a pasture sooner rather than later.
Make a napkin list of what it would take for you to be happy at this job. Would all these things happening be a probable event? Cross out "wants", leave "needs". Probability of that happening still below your threshold? Start working on a plan B, do everyone (yourself included) a favor.
 
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Why would you get into the career field of pilot if you don't like to fly and travel? If your answer is other than that, you should never have become a pilot in the first place.

I totally agree with this. I love travel and going to exotic places. Meeting exotic people. New cultures, new experiences. I love it. I was a professional sailor before this and spent many a night in a nice anchorage someplace oversees.

Applebees in Detroit on the 12 hr layover. I’d rather be at home....

Sadly that’s what you get as flight crew more often than not. Wish it was different but it’s not.


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Meh. There are places in Detroit other than Applebees, some are (gasp) actually good. You also don't have to go do what your crew is doing every time. Honestly, it takes not very much effort to make a trip enjoyable in even the "worst" of places, you just have to actually leave your room.

On the other hand, if you're one of those people bidding those mythical lines of "super productive 4 days" with 30 hours of flying and 10:01 overnights, then I don't know what to tell you (general you, not referring to you specficially). You're going to be miserable and in turn spending all your time off trying to recover from doing waaay too much freaking work in the first place. This is a easy job on even the worst of days, but lots of folks try to make it too damn hard.
 
I'm back on reserve for the last two months. I bid for exciting flying over the holidays because I knew I could hold it.
 
Ha! Good luck. Holidays are always a crap shoot. I've had some of the most amazing and also some of the most awful trips over holidays. Still, I usually bid to work holidays as I'm single and also don't care much about that stuff in general after being stationed overseas for several years.
 
For what it's worth, I've always told people "If you CAN not fly for a living, you SHOULD not fly for a living."

But I CAN'T not fly for a living. And almost a decade into doing this professionally, sitting left seat in a well-managed regional... I'm pretty damned happy. ^_^ Are there moments I don't love what I do?

You know, not really. I hear people at my shop complain often enough, but half the time I look at what they're complaining about I truly wonder. Other airlines ... well, they have more serious issues, more serious grievances, or they're trying to get something for nothing. Is it panacea? Nah. But I have a great time, I love what I do, and I do what I love.

I'll almost certainly never fly at a major airline. I probably won't make more than maybe $120k. And you know? I'm enjoying every moment, triply so since moving to the left seat. I love saying hi and bye to passengers, helping them when I can, apologizing when things go wrong. I love mentoring new FOs, encouraging experienced FOs, explaining things to people that they never heard before, offering critique when requested or appropriate, and working with the whole team to make an on-time departure happen.

I think there are a lot of people who are doing this job for the wrong reason, and probably should be chasing a different rabbit. But for me, and those like me, everything about it just feels awesome.

I love being a captain, I love my jet, I love the people I fly with, and I love and respect my company. And when I go home at the end of the day, I don't think about any of it for more than a few moments here and there.

For those like me, it's great.

-Kysh
 
Just don't get the connection between this and comparing $$$ with doctors and lawyers.

Agree completely. But go back and take a look. That was started by the failed lawyer trying to defend the flying profession as paying as well as a cardiac surgeon. That’s delusional, and it’s the kind of thing that needs to be dispelled so people don’t decide to get into the industry based on false information. If what you care about is making lots of money, there are better careers for that.

For what it's worth, I've always told people "If you CAN not fly for a living, you SHOULD not fly for a living."

Really great way to put it.
 
I think I've been pretty clear that my only goal is to make sure that people who haven't already taken the plunge put a LOT of thought into it and make absolutely sure that it's what they want. People have a romanticized view of it all that isn't accurate.

If I could do it all over again I’d never touch a plane. Skilled trade, take my 60k a year and no debt and be happy.
 
I hear people at my shop complain often enough, but half the time I look at what they're complaining about I truly wonder.
In my previous profession we referred to this as “bitchin’ about being hungry with a loaf of bread under your arm”
 
So many of the whiners in here have no idea how hard attorneys have to work either. What is it for the newer attorneys? 60-70 hours/week?

For new attorneys, it's brutal. The little acoustic trio I used to play in had a lovely singer - she was terrific. And she was a junior associate who was miserable with the workload. She finally bailed on us a couple years ago.

Heard last week she got out of legal, has been singing and has cut a new album. It's amazing.

One tiny little datapoint, I know.

For what it's worth, I've always told people "If you CAN not fly for a living, you SHOULD not fly for a living."

But I CAN'T not fly for a living. And almost a decade into doing this professionally, sitting left seat in a well-managed regional... I'm pretty damned happy. ^_^ Are there moments I don't love what I do?

The above advice has resonated with me lately as I have been getting closer to "the goal." And I've wondered...because I'm in the first category. From a pure economic survival point of you, I can not-fly for a living.

But, my soul is dying a little from the choices I've made. And while I can live with them, I want the chance to make a different choice....for so many varied reasons that, ultimately, I'll sum up in a sec....

<punches some buttons on the time machine...apologies for the length of this...>

The rest of this post is more addressed to the GenPop, but you've always been really good at articulating things I'm thinking so I'm going to (with a little bit of shame) appropriate your post here because it's relevant @Acrofox .

I very specifically remember an argument about the airline life around 10-12 years ago here, where @mtsu_av8er was making the point that if you're happy doing what you're doing at the regional, then that's it and you're good and no reason to bitch about it. He got an inordinate amount of crap from people on this website telling him that he was wrong to be enjoying what he was doing, essentially.

You notice he doesn't post here much anymore. I'm not claiming causation, but I suspect he was ultimately happier not wasting his time defending a decent philosophy that worked for him.

So many of the complaints I have seen about The Industry come from people who have never really worked outside of it. There are just as many pilots romanticizing a "normal" day to day job (especially one like mine where I pretty much set my own hours, have good salary and benefits, etc) as there are guys like me on the outside looking in. And the thing is, I can fly, right now, for myself, when and where I want. I do have that luxury.

But, like our friend Fox here, I see more to the job than just the flying. And the part of the gig that really attracts me is that I can leave the job at the job when I'm not there. I like the idea of the non-flying aspects of the job, and, in my mid-late-40s now, I've learned not to define myself by what I do, but rather how I feel about doing it, and the impact I have on other people.

The inability to really have a positive impact in people's lives is a large part of what's driving me out of a 25-year career. I woke up at 3 o'clock this morning, sweating a little from a stress dream because I realized something a potential client said in a meeting yesterday was potentially a dealkiller for us, and there's a lot riding on the deal. As I gradually calmed down and went back to sleep, thinking about how I was going to deal with it today, I thought to myself, "this is no goddamned way to live your life."

Because this happens a lot more often than I would like to admit. Perhaps it says more about me than the career.

I recognize that a large part of how I feel in the paragraps above is steeped in how I respond to my reality - I get that. I am also becoming aware of the idea that perhaps I can change those responses and reactions and learn to live happily and well in what I'm doing. My daily reality is, in many respects, many of y'all's plan B.

Yeah. I can keep this job. I just don't want to. Or - more finely put - I don't want to be the person I am in this job.

So - to sum it up, The flying version of me is a happier, more content, better person - both to myself and the people around me.

I'll almost certainly never fly at a major airline. I probably won't make more than maybe $120k. And you know? I'm enjoying every moment, triply so since moving to the left seat. I love saying hi and bye to passengers, helping them when I can, apologizing when things go wrong. I love mentoring new FOs, encouraging experienced FOs, explaining things to people that they never heard before, offering critique when requested or appropriate, and working with the whole team to make an on-time departure happen.

I think there are a lot of people who are doing this job for the wrong reason, and probably should be chasing a different rabbit. But for me, and those like me, everything about it just feels awesome.

I love being a captain, I love my jet, I love the people I fly with, and I love and respect my company. And when I go home at the end of the day, I don't think about any of it for more than a few moments here and there.

For those like me, it's great.

I love the above three paragraphs, because there is a resonance of contentment there that I aspire to. It's at least partially congruent with some of the things I love about flight instruction, which didn't really dawn on me until I read the above. And I suppose - in fact, I know - that there are many ways to achieve that level of contentment.

The fun part is that I'm still learning who I am in some ways, and what I want. And while I work toward the qualifications, the absolute luxury will be having the opportunity come up and being able to be honest with myself and walk away if it doesn't feel right. This makes me a very, very lucky person. I, too, will probably never fly at a Major. I'm okay with that.
 
For new attorneys, it's brutal. The little acoustic trio I used to play in had a lovely singer - she was terrific. And she was a junior associate who was miserable with the workload. She finally bailed on us a couple years ago.

Heard last week she got out of legal, has been singing and has cut a new album. It's amazing.

One tiny little datapoint, I know.



The above advice has resonated with me lately as I have been getting closer to "the goal." And I've wondered...because I'm in the first category. From a pure economic survival point of you, I can not-fly for a living.

But, my soul is dying a little from the choices I've made. And while I can live with them, I want the chance to make a different choice....for so many varied reasons that, ultimately, I'll sum up in a sec....

<punches some buttons on the time machine...apologies for the length of this...>

The rest of this post is more addressed to the GenPop, but you've always been really good at articulating things I'm thinking so I'm going to (with a little bit of shame) appropriate your post here because it's relevant @Acrofox .

I very specifically remember an argument about the airline life around 10-12 years ago here, where @mtsu_av8er was making the point that if you're happy doing what you're doing at the regional, then that's it and you're good and no reason to bitch about it. He got an inordinate amount of crap from people on this website telling him that he was wrong to be enjoying what he was doing, essentially.

You notice he doesn't post here much anymore. I'm not claiming causation, but I suspect he was ultimately happier not wasting his time defending a decent philosophy that worked for him.

So many of the complaints I have seen about The Industry come from people who have never really worked outside of it. There are just as many pilots romanticizing a "normal" day to day job (especially one like mine where I pretty much set my own hours, have good salary and benefits, etc) as there are guys like me on the outside looking in. And the thing is, I can fly, right now, for myself, when and where I want. I do have that luxury.

But, like our friend Fox here, I see more to the job than just the flying. And the part of the gig that really attracts me is that I can leave the job at the job when I'm not there. I like the idea of the non-flying aspects of the job, and, in my mid-late-40s now, I've learned not to define myself by what I do, but rather how I feel about doing it, and the impact I have on other people.

The inability to really have a positive impact in people's lives is a large part of what's driving me out of a 25-year career. I woke up at 3 o'clock this morning, sweating a little from a stress dream because I realized something a potential client said in a meeting yesterday was potentially a dealkiller for us, and there's a lot riding on the deal. As I gradually calmed down and went back to sleep, thinking about how I was going to deal with it today, I thought to myself, "this is no goddamned way to live your life."

Because this happens a lot more often than I would like to admit. Perhaps it says more about me than the career.

I recognize that a large part of how I feel in the paragraps above is steeped in how I respond to my reality - I get that. I am also becoming aware of the idea that perhaps I can change those responses and reactions and learn to live happily and well in what I'm doing. My daily reality is, in many respects, many of y'all's plan B.

Yeah. I can keep this job. I just don't want to. Or - more finely put - I don't want to be the person I am in this job.

So - to sum it up, The flying version of me is a happier, more content, better person - both to myself and the people around me.



I love the above three paragraphs, because there is a resonance of contentment there that I aspire to. It's at least partially congruent with some of the things I love about flight instruction, which didn't really dawn on me until I read the above. And I suppose - in fact, I know - that there are many ways to achieve that level of contentment.

The fun part is that I'm still learning who I am in some ways, and what I want. And while I work toward the qualifications, the absolute luxury will be having the opportunity come up and being able to be honest with myself and walk away if it doesn't feel right. This makes me a very, very lucky person. I, too, will probably never fly at a Major. I'm okay with that.
You have very well expressed some of the ideas that I tried to put down in earlier post(s), and didn't do very well. (@SlumTodd_Millionaire got on me for it)
Thanks for typing all that - I am/was in the same place 20 yrs ago.
 
If I could do it all over again I’d never touch a plane. Skilled trade, take my 60k a year and no debt and be happy.

I guess I'm very fortunate in that, despite leaving the profession, I have absolutely zero regrets about my airline career. There were many aspects of it that I absolutely loved, and it also gave me an opportunity to do union work, which is the work I've done during my life that I'm most proud of. That work also helped me to develop the skill set that I needed to run my own business successfully so that I was actually able to leave the profession.

That said, I was not saddled with $100k of debt like many people are. That would certainly change the perspective.

The inability to really have a positive impact in people's lives is a large part of what's driving me out of a 25-year career. I woke up at 3 o'clock this morning, sweating a little from a stress dream because I realized something a potential client said in a meeting yesterday was potentially a dealkiller for us, and there's a lot riding on the deal. As I gradually calmed down and went back to sleep, thinking about how I was going to deal with it today, I thought to myself, "this is no goddamned way to live your life."

Because this happens a lot more often than I would like to admit. Perhaps it says more about me than the career.

I don't think this is so much about being in a non-flying career, it's just that the career that you're in is not well suited for your personality type. One of the things you learn when you have to start hiring and firing people is that it's not nearly as much about skills as it is about personality type. Certain people fit into certain kinds of jobs, and other people it's like trying to squeeze a giant square peg into a small round hole. This is why many employers are using personality profiles nowadays, such as Culture Index, to make sure that the person will be happy in the role.

If you're waking up like that in the middle of the night, then you're in the wrong role. The people who fit well into those kinds of jobs are people who thrive on that kind of pressure.
 
I don't think this is so much about being in a non-flying career, it's just that the career that you're in is not well suited for your personality type. One of the things you learn when you have to start hiring and firing people is that it's not nearly as much about skills as it is about personality type. Certain people fit into certain kinds of jobs, and other people it's like trying to squeeze a giant square peg into a small round hole. This is why many employers are using personality profiles nowadays, such as Culture Index, to make sure that the person will be happy in the role.

If you're waking up like that in the middle of the night, then you're in the wrong role. The people who fit well into those kinds of jobs are people who thrive on that kind of pressure.

Kinda sorta - the role and the job and the industry have changed to needing someone with a different personality type, perhaps. I've changed, too. <shrug> It happens.
 
I guess I'm very fortunate in that, despite leaving the profession, I have absolutely zero regrets about my airline career. There were many aspects of it that I absolutely loved, and it also gave me an opportunity to do union work, which is the work I've done during my life that I'm most proud of. That work also helped me to develop the skill set that I needed to run my own business successfully so that I was actually able to leave the profession.

That said, I was not saddled with $100k of debt like many people are. That would certainly change the perspective.

I often try to imagine if I would feel the same without the debt and I really would. I don’t like most pilots to be honest. I can’t stand the elitism and nepotism that runs deep in this industry. Blue-bloods are the most annoying people alive and this industry is rife with em.

With that being said, some of these pilots are the best people I’ve ever met. The industry attracts a lot of jerks sure, but it also attracts some of the best people you’ll ever meet.
 
With that being said, some of these pilots are the best people I’ve ever met. The industry attracts a lot of jerks sure, but it also attracts some of the best people you’ll ever meet.

I think this is certainly a true statement. The people I've met here on JC, and many of the people I met in union work, were amazing people. But I'd say a solid 80% of the line guys I flew with on a daily basis were just awful people. Racial slurs, bragging about their new lake house that they paid for with overtime while guys were on furlough, bragging about banging the flight attendant last night then showing me photos of their wife and kids, constant right wing political rants, etc. I did not enjoy spending time with these people.
 
I think this is certainly a true statement. The people I've met here on JC, and many of the people I met in union work, were amazing people. But I'd say a solid 80% of the line guys I flew with on a daily basis were just awful people. Racial slurs, bragging about their new lake house that they paid for with overtime while guys were on furlough, bragging about banging the flight attendant last night then showing me photos of their wife and kids, constant right wing political rants, etc. I did not enjoy spending time with these people.

It's a lot more like 20% at my shop. Maybe even less. The lack of empathy is pretty strong though. Mostly it comes from the incredibly lucky pilots who never went through a furlough or other hardship.
 
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