Why EMAS is good

kellwolf said:
Worldflight and the speed cards give us most of that from the start. The MAJOR complaint I've heard from guy that go from the -200 to the -900 is they hate the LIDO releases b/c of the lack of info. The fuel burn on the worldflight releases are SCARY accurate. Guys slam them all the time, but if you fly the route as planned at the speeds and altitude planned, you'll land within about 100 lbs of your EFOA. We get the ZFW straight outta the FMS perf init page. All our speeds (landing and takeoff) are based off the speed cards rounded up to the next thousands. Example: actual weight is 48,430, you use the 49,000 speed card. Flap settings and the performance numbers associated with them are on the release. Flex is either via ACARS or on a closeout report we get just prior to closing the door. Really, the only thing we need to get via ACARS (or radio if ACARS is busted) is confirmation of the load data and the trim setting.

For contaminated runways, we've got "equivalency" keys for takeoff data. For landing, we have to do it the old fashioned way: a chart.

From what I hear, we're not getting Aerodata since it seems Delta has decided Worldflight is gonna stick around. We'll be getting some sort of hybrid system that has the Worldflight releases but a W&B program that doesn't have us sitting around waiting on numbers.

Those of ya just learning all this, here's a shining example of how two airlines can operate the exact same airplane in TOTALLY different ways.
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What we use at Delta is "FPS 2.0" and "AWABS." FPS is the flight planning/dispatch release and awabs is the weight and balance computation. It's kinda a deltafied Wordflight and MGL. The info is pretty much all the same, just presented in a different way.

Worldflight will be no longer utilized by NWA come April. I think the DC-9's are switching over as the guinea pigs in March, which is why you see them running around with the 7xxx flight numbers.

It will be interesting to see what Pinnacle does. I sure did love Worldflight....
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
What we use at Delta is "FPS 2.0" and "AWABS." FPS is the flight planning/dispatch release and awabs is the weight and balance computation. It's kinda a deltafied Wordflight and MGL. The info is pretty much all the same, just presented in a different way.

Worldflight will be no longer utilized by NWA come April. I think the DC-9's are switching over as the guinea pigs in March, which is why you see them running around with the 7xxx flight numbers.

It will be interesting to see what Pinnacle does. I sure did love Worldflight....
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Actually, that sounds like what management is kinda hinting at for us. Wonder if Delta will turn loose their tight grip or if we're being played.....again.
 
Hard to believe they would not have put the flaps down. They may have retracted them later, I don't know. No other comment but thank God this didnt happen 15 months ago, before the the EMAS was installed because there are 33 people unhurt, and I would have lost a couple of friends. Going off the edge of the cliff would have been unsurvivable.:D
 
granlistillo said:
Hard to believe they would not have put the flaps down. They may have retracted them later, I don't know. No other comment but thank God this didnt happen 15 months ago, before the the EMAS was installed because there are 33 people unhurt, and I would have lost a couple of friends. Going off the edge of the cliff would have been unsurvivable.:D
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From what I heard there was a config warning involved. If the flaps weren't down, they woulda never gotten started good on the takeoff roll before they got "config flaps." The warning occurred much later than that. So, I'm guessing the flaps were at 8. Like someone else said, if that's the case, you couldn't tell from the picture up there if they were at 8 or 0.
 
BobDDuck said:
Huh... We get V1, V2 and Vr as well as a flex and flap setting. It also gives us a ZFW to use. We can get landing data now as well which gives us Vref, V2 and Vt for a go around. We are still having some issues with Aerodata as far as the runway contamination selections and what they actually mean.

.
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Just curious, but what kind of issues?
 
"compact snow" vs. "ice" or "dry snow" vs. "loose snow" or "wet snow" vs. "slush and standing water". It was clarified some recently, but Aerodata's terms still don't match the POH terms and neither match what airports put out on the ATIS. What exactly do you throw into the ACARS when they are reporting "all surfaces covered with patches of compact snow with areas of slush"?
 
BobDDuck said:
"compact snow" vs. "ice" or "dry snow" vs. "loose snow" or "wet snow" vs. "slush and standing water". It was clarified some recently, but Aerodata's terms still don't match the POH terms and neither match what airports put out on the ATIS. What exactly do you throw into the ACARS when they are reporting "all surfaces covered with patches of compact snow with areas of slush"?
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See, we have a chart that we can take braking action or MU values (and some new code thing we're testing out in MSP) and determine what the equivalency is on ACARS for takeoff numbers. We can use the same chart to determine which one of the contaminated landing charts to use to determine landing data. From what I hear, in the future we'll get contaminated landing data via ACARS, but I have no idea how they plan to do it.
 
BobDDuck said:
What's bad if you go off the end in TUS?

OHHHMMMAAAA GAAAAWWWDDD!!! We hit a cactus!



The reason he mentions that it is bad if you go off the end of 23 in CRW is that it is a 400 foot drop into a gully with, ironically enough, a cemetery in it.
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400' is that all?; seems like more.The departure end of 23 or approach end of 5, whatever is darn freaky. I don't see any way they would have made it without EMAS.
 
C150J said:
Can anyone cite whether or not EMAS is included in V1 calculations?
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falconvalley said:
It "can" be.

25.109
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I'm not sure I agree with that. My understanding is that ASDA (Accelerate/Stop Distance Available) is defined as TORA (Take Off Run Available) + Stopway, but I don't think that an EMAS qualifies as part of a Stopway. Just as a Runway Safety Area does not qualify as part of a Stopway.

By no means am I an expert on this stuff though. I'd be really interested if someone has more info to clarify this.
 
SteveC said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. My understanding is that ASDA (Accelerate/Stop Distance Available) is defined as TORA (Take Off Run Available) + Stopway, but I don't think that an EMAS qualifies as part of a Stopway. Just as a Runway Safety Area does not qualify as part of a Stopway.

By no means am I an expert on this stuff though. I'd be really interested if someone has more info to clarify this.
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Based on the video posted earlier in this thread, it appears EMAS qualifies as a replacement for the safety area only. I didn't get the impression that it would qualify as a replacement for the stopway itself. So that being said, I think you're correct: The V1 calculation wouldn't include the EMAS.
 
Word from Aerodata is that it's NOT considered in a V1 calculation. I'll see if I can post the official guidance.
 
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