Why did you go 135 to 121 or the other way around?

I went 135 to 121 supplemental for QoL. Sometimes I wonder why I even get a paycheck, as I feel like I barely work compared to what I used to do.
 
Having done 91, then 135, then 121, I can say that I LOVED the first 2. But, there's nothing quite like the ability to have a long stretch of days off and nobody but your closest crewmember friends know you're gone. I also love the free seats to faraway places and the people I meet.
 
If you're strictly interested in pay, and this sounds pretty counter intuitive, but I would recommend going straight to a regional airline. There are part 135 jobs that pay on the same level of major airline jobs but these highest tier 135/91 jobs are even harder to get than the majors unless you have impeccable networking, right time right place, or just stumble onto it.

The mid to high tier part 135 jobs (and I include my own in this even though I fly a single engine turboprop) pay a little at or above what your average RJ captain makes, but even here it is a lot fewer of these than RJ captains around.

If you work at an average to good regional, you will start making about what the average part 135 companies make as a co-pilot at year 2-3, and far exceed the bottom tier / entry level -- but the key part is you have a lot of room to grow (when you upgrade and then up the pay scale.) You'll find most mid-tier part 135s have mostly stangant pay raises. For example, when I worked at Baron Aviation (a FedEx feeder) my starting pay was a reasonable 40k/yr to fly a Caravan, but I was looking at essentially 1k/yr pay raises with no hope for anything else as long as I was there. Also, there is a lot of room for overtime / picking up flights in most 121 carriers. This is few and far between in 135 companies that aren't EMS or fractionals.

The only gotcha with my recommendation to go straight to 121 if you want is once you break into the mid-tier (type rated) 135/91 jobs you get to a point where your job experience will allow you a relative lateral transition with no real loss of pay if your principle dies, your flight department closes, etc where as you have to start over from square 1 at a new regional if you get laid off (been there done that.)

I made an intentional decision to in some ways stunt my career prospects by going to part 135 due to quality of life issues and being able to be at home every night. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, had I to do it over again I probably would have taken a job at SkyWest when I had 500 hours after flight instructing instead of trying to build street cred for another 6-8 months until the only place hiring was Mesa. I'm in a very nice spot now, but for comparisan a friend I made in flight school at ATP just got hired at United. I feel so great for him. He prioritized hustling to get experience to move on to the next level -- he even took a serious step down some would say leaving a PIC job flying Falcon 20s to being a co-pilot at SkyWest for a few years before now moving to United in a month or two.
 
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SpiraMirabilis said:
If you're strictly interested in pay, and this sounds pretty counter intuitive, but I would recommend going straight to a regional airline. There are part 135 jobs that pay on the same level of major airline jobs but these highest tier 135/91 jobs are even harder to get than the majors unless you have impeccable networking, right time right place, or just stumble onto it.

The mid to high tier part 135 jobs (and I include my own in this even though I fly a single engine turboprop) pay a little at or above what your average RJ captain makes, but even here it is a lot fewer of these than RJ captains around.

If you work at an average to good regional, you will start making about what the average part 135 companies make as a co-pilot at year 2-3, and far exceed the bottom tier / entry level -- but the key part is you have a lot of room to grow (when you upgrade and then up the pay scale.) You'll find most mid-tier part 135s have mostly stangant pay raises. For example, when I worked at Baron Aviation (a FedEx feeder) my starting pay was a reasonable 40k/yr to fly a Caravan, but I was looking at essentially 1k/yr pay raises with no hope for anything else as long as I was there. Also, there is a lot of room for overtime / picking up flights in most 121 carriers. This is few and far between in 135 companies that aren't EMS or fractionals.

The only gotcha with my recommendation to go straight to 121 if you want is once you break into the mid-tier (type rated) 135/91 jobs you get to a point where your job experience will allow you a relative lateral transition with no real loss of pay if your principle dies, your flight department closes, etc where as you have to start over from square 1 at a new regional if you get laid off (been there done that.)

I made an intentional decision to in some ways stunt my career prospects by going to part 135 due to quality of life issues and being able to be at home every night. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, had I to do it over again I probably would have taken a job at SkyWest when I had 500 hours after flight instructing instead of trying to build street cred for another 6-8 months until the only place hiring was Mesa. I'm in a very nice spot now, but for comparisan a friend I made in flight school at ATP just got hired at United. I feel so great for him. He prioritized hustling to get experience to move on to the next level -- he even took a serious step down some would say leaving a PIC job flying Falcon 20s to being a co-pilot at SkyWest for a few years before now moving to United in a month or two.
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Do a lot of the entry level to mid tier 135 charter companies (not talking about air ambulance) give you much time off like regionals do? Or are they pretty low staffed and require their pilots to fly more? I guess basically I'm asking how would you rate the quality of life at the majority of 135 operators? On a scale of 1 to 10. Are the majority of 135's a sort of 'get in, get your time, and get out' then move on to a better 135 or 91?
 
Bamaaviator said:
Do a lot of the entry level to mid tier 135 charter companies (not talking about air ambulance) give you much time off like regionals do? Or are they pretty low staffed and require their pilots to fly more? I guess basically I'm asking how would you rate the quality of life at the majority of 135 operators? On a scale of 1 to 10. Are the majority of 135's a sort of 'get in, get your time, and get out' then move on to a better 135 or 91?
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Most 135 operators do crazy stuff like 6 days off a quarter, or whatever the legal minimum is. Then you have the crapbag outfits that do 24/7 on call on top of that.
 
I'm going to drag this one back up and give my $.02! I am currently in the process of working toward a 121 position after spending the better part of the last 15 years in Part 135 ops.
My advice for the short term if a person is single and they want a good ( it varies ) job to get some experience, go visit a few fun places, and meet a lot of great people while quickly knocking down some debit and/or packing some money away is to give 135 a whirl.
As far as long term planning I would suggest putting yourself in a position to go part 121 ASAP and work hard to get to a company where you have the opportunity to spend a career.
That is my take on it in a nutshell, 135 could be a good job for a while, 121 is a much better situation for a career ( especially as you get older, get married and have a kid or three. You are going to be very hard pressed to find very many 135 positions that allow for you to plan any quality time for your family, friends, hobbies, etc... ( and by quality I mean planning something and realistically being able to commit to being there for it. I understand that with some jobs and companies you may spend less days at work, or days/nights away from home while working 135 or 91, but not very many of them give you the opportunity to check your flight schedule and look your spouse or child in the eye and tell them they can count on you to be there for them.
I can honestly say that from my prospective I am pretty excited about the move, and looking forward to the challenges ahead!
 
Still in the infancy of my career, but I went 135 because of the equipment and pay. After I finish school in June, I will be gone all the time - but that is large cabin charter in a nutshell. I'm single and have no children, so I figured now is the time to see the world and get the experiences I may not be able to later in my career.
 
Bamaaviator said:
Do a lot of the entry level to mid tier 135 charter companies (not talking about air ambulance) give you much time off like regionals do? Or are they pretty low staffed and require their pilots to fly more? I guess basically I'm asking how would you rate the quality of life at the majority of 135 operators? On a scale of 1 to 10. Are the majority of 135's a sort of 'get in, get your time, and get out' then move on to a better 135 or 91?
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I get 5 scheduled days off a month. It sounds miserable, but I got off duty every day at 7PM if I'm not flying, and I don't fly much. I fly about once a week, and it's usually out at backs.
 
z987k said:
Things I don't know, because there's no chance in hell I'd work for an outfit that did that.

Person - How many days per quarter are the minimum required per quarter for unscheduled 135?
Me - Irrelevant and/or does not apply.
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It actually wouldn't be hard to run into that here if you picked up every conceivable extra shift you could and worked 20-on-10-off at a medevac company. A friend of mine who flies a G3 under 135 gets 13 hard days off in advance in a quarter, but flies about once a week, the rest of the days he's on-call with 24hr notice for trips. That's another way it could work. If you don't know them, how can you know if you're breaking them or not ;)
 
ppragman said:
It actually wouldn't be hard to run into that here if you picked up every conceivable extra shift you could and worked 20-on-10-off at a medevac company. A friend of mine who flies a G3 under 135 gets 13 hard days off in advance in a quarter, but flies about once a week, the rest of the days he's on-call with 24hr notice for trips. That's another way it could work. If you don't know them, how can you know if you're breaking them or not ;)
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Because that is so much more work than I am willing to do, it's impossible that it'd come up.
 
Let me start by saying my end goal was a part 121 Major since the beginning of my career.

After getting the certificates and instructing for a few years I was hired at OO and subsequently out of a job immediately due to the '08 recession. I then flew part 135 ad hoc charter(OOTSK!) for just under five years. About halfway through I got an opportunity to return to OO but I'm extremely glad I chose to continue flying part 135 as it gave me an upgrade to the left seat, additional job roles which I attribute my current gig to, and a massive difference in pay. After the 135 operator filed CH. 7, I was on the street for two days until I went back to OO for another four years. I was hired at NKS and now with UAL.

In reflection, the easiest part of my career was the part 121 work. The difference in support and organization is incomparable and I truly enjoy it. The downside is that for most of my 121 career the trade off was the regional pay + 8 year wait for upgrade. Personally, if I hadn't taken the upgrade and built the TPIC at the lucrative 135 gig, I most likely would be upgrading at OO in 2 - 3 months and that's the silver lining.

So there's my 121 - 135 - 121 story for ya! Cheers!
 
I did two shifts last year of 5 weeks on/1 week off which basically put me right up against the minimum number of days off/quarter. We were down a pilot and the paychecks that resulted were...fruitful. That being said, Medevac from home has to be the best job ever, enough free time for me to get organized and probably start my own side business.
 
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