Why are so many in aviation so horrible at business and marketing?

[av8tr1]

I worked outside of aviation for a while and got a good dose of how the rest of the world works. I am simply amazed at how horrible some flight schools and 135 operators relate to their customers. I get that some of the small time guys are just pilots with money still in their pockets after getting their certs but holy cow batman, how do these guys stay in business?

Some examples......

Example #1
Was recently offered a job to start up a flight school half way across the country. No big deal with the move but before I packed up everything to make the move I wanted to know more about the company and it's business plan. Owner is a young aviator fresh out of the military. Talked someone into investing in a couple of aircraft and is off and running mainly tours and rides. He's not a CFI just commercial and wants to add flight training to the mix. But here's the kicker. Wants to charge $100 more than the national going rate for the aircraft. Imagine a C172 for over $200 an hour. I tactfully told him he's nuts and put together a report showing the price the 20 or so closest flight schools were charging. He responds that the airport is in an affluent area and people will pay the over and above price. We agreed to disagree and he said let me see how many students I can get lined up before you move. I am patiently waiting......

Example #2
Was recently looking to add my MEI, started contacting schools. Was looking for one of the weekend courses, fly in for 3 or 4 days get 6 or 10 hours and checkride with onsite examiner. I contacted one of the better known schools through phone and email (web form) and never got a response. Another one responded to me via email with very little detail but honestly seemed to expect me to jump on a plane and fly out to see him right away. We had some back and forth but each time was very little info. I had to ask pointed questions and got vague answers. Probably a great guy to do a rating with but first impression was a little unprofessional for the amount of money I was going to spend. Probably 3 or 4 thousand of lost business.

Example #3
Went to a local school to get a tail dragger endorsement. This is a school I rent with regularly. Was scheduled more than a week in advance. Kept calling to discuss the plan with the instructor but he was never in. Left probably 3 or 4 messages with a number to call me back. Nothing....zip zero nada. I show up the scheduled day to start training and low and behold he is there but has no idea I am coming. Had a nonflying activity scheduled but offered to move it but told me it would be a pain for him. I decided to spend my money elsewhere. Probably another 2 or 3 thousand of lost business.

Example #4
Well I could go on all day with these.......

Anyone else seeing this? I am kinda at a stage of "HERE take my money!"....yet far too many of these places are giving me the run don't walk away vibe.

For an industry that prides itself on professionalism it sure does not trickle down to the low time operators.

 

[killbilly]

Yes. I've seen this a lot. I wrote a post along these lines not too long ago (99% of success is showing up) and I've just sort of decided that it's a part of the business.

It galls me to say this, but do you know who does this well? ATP. They're good about managing leads and contacts and qualifying them. But even something as simple as scheduling 15 minutes to talk to a potential customer - our own @ryanmickG did this for me years ago - can make a difference for a company.

Right now, I'm pretty much stalking an FBO near me to return my calls. They're really starting to piss me off.

 

[Goonie]

I used to manage/Chief Pilot a flight school for many years so I will give you some input.

The school I worked for went through many different phases as far as their target business. When I started we were not 141 approved so doing the local private students and some fly-in multi add on ratings were our bread and butter. I spent many hours coordinating schedules with students, instructors, and examiners. Part of my job was corresponding with potential customers. We didn't have enough money for advertising so word of mouth is what kept the business alive. We went out of our way to make even the customer doing a few hours for currency or a multi rating as happy as possible.

Fast forward a few years.....

We eventually got 141 approval and shortly after that immigration approved. The school grew so big, so fast that customer service to local american business went way downhill. Once we started getting business from India, Italy and other Asian countries we focused all of our attention to that. At one point we had almost 200 students before we knew it.

To be brutally honest with you, people like you that would call and want a few hours and a check ride or some random training was the biggest pain in the ass. We had to schedule examiners weeks in advance to accommodate our foreign students that were paying $50,000. We got to a point were we would politely turn that kind of business away.

If you are trying to call a foreign flight training school, I would look elsewhere. If you are just calling smaller flight schools that make their money of customers like you and they are still not calling you back, shame on them.

You mentioned the instructor not calling you back. I do not want to make excuses for him, but if he has a full student load than he is probably running very thin. Remember, instructors have a very little low paying, high stress job so they tend to not want to do anything extra without getting paid. I honestly don't blame them.

Example 1: The guy will learn that his business will die if he is not competitive. Rich people are not stupid, they are not going to just pay extra money for no reason.

Example 2: It was probably a foreign flight training center. Losing 3-4 thousand dollars seems like a big loss, but the profit margins for flight schools are razor thin. They might net $500 out of that. They are looking for the $50,000 deposits.

Example 3: Seems like someone dropped the ball. If they have a taildragger they are probably a small school. Big schools do not want that headache or liability.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

To be brutally honest with you, people like you that would call and want a few hours and a check ride or some random training was the biggest pain in the ass. .

But those pains in the ass are the ones who will bad mouth you all over the place. If you have a target market (like oversees students) and don;t care about the local business, then you are good to go. Otherwise, you'll be sitting on your thumb in a few years wondering why no one walks in the door.

The stories about the bad business sense of aviation are legendary. My all time favorite is about the woman who walks into an FBO. No one greets her. Although there are folks around, none asks of (s)he can help her. Finally, in frustration the surgeon leaves, gets into her Mercedes, drives to the harbor and buys a boat complete with lessons.

But it's not just aviation, although it seems we attract a health percentage (although I personally know a few very good business people in aviation). There was a go-to commercial and residential garage guy who had been in business for years. During a real estate boom period he would make appointments and stand up residential customers because he "had something better to do." When the bubble busted and there was no new large construction he went bankrupt and lost his home. Never could figure out why no one called him any more. After all, he was the "go-to" guy in a small community. Those pains in the ass must have been talking.

 

[Goonie]

But those pains in the ass are the ones who will bad mouth you all over the place. If you have a target market (like oversees students) and don;t care about the local business, then you are good to go. Otherwise, you'll be sitting on your thumb in a few years wondering why no one walks in the door.

The stories about the bad business sense of aviation are legendary. My all time favorite is about the woman who walks into an FBO. No one greets her. Although there are folks around, none asks of (s)he can help her. Finally, in frustration the surgeon leaves, gets into her Mercedes, drives to the harbor and buys a boat complete with lessons.

But it's not just aviation, although it seems we attract a health percentage (although I personally know a few very good business people in aviation). There was a go-to commercial and residential garage guy who had been in business for years. During a real estate boom period he would make appointments and stand up residential customers because he "had something better to do." When the bubble busted and there was no new large construction he went bankrupt and lost his home. Never could figure out why no one called him any more. After all, he was the "go-to" guy in a small community. Those pains in the ass must have been talking.

I completely agree with you.

The "pain in the ass" comment was a harsh way to put it. I didn't mean the customer, but the situation.

For Example: We would be swamped with business and someone would call wanting a quick 4 day multi rating. He or she would explain that they have X days available to do it and have to be done by a certain date. The problem is the coordination of aircraft, instructors, and examiners did not afford them to go by their schedule. They had to go by our schedule and sometimes that was weeks or months out. We would always get the call " Yeah, I have next week off so I am going to come down and get my multi rating." Then they would get offended when would tell them thats now how it works.

It was a lot of work for very little profit. I would have loved to accommodate everyone that called us, but at the end of the day its all about what is best for the business and what makes the most profit. You have to put the foreign students first because if you get a bad reputation oversees then you are a dead man walking.

With flight schools you grow big enough with foreign flight training that it is not just part of your business, it is the life line of it. If you lose it, you are DONE. There is way too much overhead to be supported by American students.

Schools make the mistake that we made and tried to do both. The worst thing you can do is just not return phone calls. The best way to handle it is apologize that you can not accommodate them at the time and maybe even refer them to another school more designed for their business. You could even collaborate the schools and work out a small commission.

 

[av8tr1]

ryanmickG,

Normally that would make perfect sense. You go where the money is. However in the case of all three of these schools, none were 141 schools all part 61. None took foreign students as a business model. All were small time General Aviation schools at local airport. One didn't even have a website. Actually said it was too expensive to maintain. A school that can't afford 10 bucks a month for a website is a giant red flag to me.

So all three of these schools are not in the same business mode as your examples above. They are living hand to mouth to keep their planes running and lights on. Although in one case the owner is doing very well with a mechanic shop and parts store.

So how does that change your view point to this?

I think this is a endemic problem for General Aviation and is probably a direct cause of many of the industries issues.

 

[killbilly]

@ryanmickG - interesting perspective - thanks for sharing it. I remember when you guys were utterly slammed with students back in '06-07. The DFW market, in particular, was pretty competitive for flight schools and foreign students.

A schools inability to handle both high-volume foreign students and regular "domestic" students at the same time is not exactly an aviation problem; it's a capital problem - the school doesn't have enough financial wherewithal to service both operation requirements, and that's mainly because the margins are so thin in the business.

You have two choices in that situation - you grow the business, or you turn away new customers. But considering that once the service is rendered and the revenue from the existing customer reduces, you HAVE to maintain a funnel of new customers. When the new customer well runs dry, the short-sightedness of turning away new business because painfully clear.

There is another FBO I know of which is in less peril than the first one - they have a wholly inadequate supply of CFIs to support the customer load. And the main reason for that is because CFIs are getting hired and they aren't paying enough (in my opinion) to the pool of potential instructors. I believe this to be the case because just about every FBO I know of needs/wants instructors.

People say now is a great time to get into aviation. I'm sitting here wondering if now is a good time to start or buy a flight school.

 

[Goonie]

Well if that is the case it makes me wonder why you were treated so bad.

It has been many years since we ran a part 61 school, but I remember doing anything possible to bring in business. Hell, I remember we would get out of town customers and I would drive to pick them up at all hours of the night. We knew word of mouth was the best adverstiment you could get.

It was actually a lot less stressful than pilot milling foreign students.

 

[killbilly]

Well if that is the case it makes me wonder why you were treated so bad.

It has been many years since we ran a part 61 school, but I remember doing anything possible to bring in business. Hell, I remember we would get out of town customers and I would drive to pick them up at all hours of the night. We knew word of mouth was the best adverstiment you could get.

It was actually a lot less stressful than pilot milling foreign students.

Er...I'm not phrasing this correctly. Pardon me.

FBO "X" isn't returning my calls and that's the annoying part to me - they seem to be a fine organization otherwise.

FBO "Y" is FANTASTIC about customer service, phone stuff, organization. They're just understaffed for CFIs and too damned far away from my house - it's very difficult to secure a plane and instructor for me with the distances involved. That, and I'm REALLY picky about instructors, which is more a Killbilly problem than an FBO Problem.

For what it's worth, you guys treated me very well - even in the midst of Pilot Milling (I like that term) - and even though I didn't work your school (no money at the time) I would have.

 

[Goonie]

@killbilly

Yes 06-07 was our best year to date as far as revenue goes. We were making money hand over fist from Indian students and thats when our school really grew. The biggest problem with those years were the regionals were hiring commercial pilots with 250 hours so we had a huge problem staffing instructors. We would get a call from someone wanting a CFI job and our response was "you're hired, and have 8 students. When can you start"

Then the economy took a turn for the worse in India and the students started to dry up. Luckily we had enough cash reserves to sustain us through the slow times.

We learned a lot during that time. India kinda fell in our lap and before you knew it we had 20 coming a month. We thought that money train was going to last for a lot longer than it did. We learned the way of doing business with the eastern side of the world is not the same as doing business in the western side. The westerns can do business with E-Mails and legal paperwork without even meeting. That is not the case in Asia. I went last year to a flight training expo in Xian China for the sole purpose of finding an agent in China because that is the next big market. I handed out hundreds of business cards and went home to play the waiting game with e-mails. It took about a month of e-mailing before I finally got the guy I needed. I jumped on a plane to Shanghai to have dinner with him and talked numbers. We finally came to a deal and months later the first Chinese students were at our doorstep.

The cost of traveling and setting up a booth at a flight training expo (about $5,000) is a must if you want to get in that part of the world. They are very big on appearance and old school way of doing things.

We just got CAAV approved in Vietnam and are 1 of 4 schools approved to train Vietnamese cadets. Now the school has almost 40 Vietnamese students with more coming every week.

You mentioned opening a flight school...

Most owners would laugh in your face but I really do believe it can be a very lucrative business, but you have to do things right and have good timing. The big problem with flight school is you are hanging over a barrel most of the time. You are at the mercy of the FAA and ICE.

A school in California just closed their doors because they lost their 141 which means you lose your immigration status. They left 60 poor Vietnamese kids without money or direction.

I could go on and on....

 

[Goonie]

Also, now is a very good time to get the ball rolling on a flight school. The first thing to do is buy a little plane and rent a office. Keep your overhead super low while you work on 141 SOP's and TCO's. It should take less than a year to get your approval depending on how fast your FSDO operates. Once you have that in your hand you can work on immigration approval which doesn't take long if you know what you're doing.

After you have that then you can get to work on making connections with agents around the world. Agents are a necessary evil that you have to put up with. They take 5% of the gross, so lets say the program is 50K, thats a big chunk for them for not doing that much work. I honestly tossed around the idea of just becoming an agent. Live in China or a big asian market and just do flight training expos.

Indigo in India just ordered 250 Airbus so India will be coming back soon. There is so much meat on the bone in Asia.

 

[uncreative]

I've had pretty much the exact same experiences mentioned in the OP. I've never had a harder time convincing people to take my money. And the antics my local FBO has pulled on me, for someone who has spent about 3K a month there since March, are mind boggling. ATP does look better and better every day.

 

[killbilly]

@ryanmickG ....(and others, if you know)

Semi-related question, since I have your attention....

If you're primarily a 141 school and you have a student prospect who wants to pursue the IR via part 61, is this a good idea or a bad one for the flight school? Is there any advantage for the student, especially if they already have the 50 hours of XC PIC met?