Who killed non-rev shoulder season?

Hiboglossi said:
Yes, honestly a lot of this thread strikes me as stereotypical legacy pilot "my gold bars are too heavy" complaining.
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I hear you, and I don’t disagree. We are extremely privileged individuals and I am very thankful for that.

However, from the first day at any airline; in any position from below wing to high in the skies. The companies tout how awesome having flight “benefits” are. Well sure it’s a great benefit when it works and getting it to workout has become harder.

TLDR:
-Lucky to make the money we do.
-Maybe not so much of a benefit anymore and shouldn’t be classified as such.
-Thankful airlines are filling seats and making revenue.
 
tcco94 said:
Can’t tell if I’ve just gotten tired or snobby of standby but my favorite benefit is the confirmed for less. I don’t even bother non rev domestic anymore I just buy tickets. lol I don’t even care. It makes my trips way less stressful and with a wife who has a normal work schedule I don’t have to wake up at 3am to catch a 5am departure or have 7 back up flights all oversold. Oh and 2 leg it home when I could just go direct? Nah, I’m good. Feel like you need a nomad kinda planning go with the flow vacationer to non rev these days.
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I'm the same way now, if I have any doubt i'm gonna get on, I buy a myUAdiscount unless the price is still crazy. This is where me being able to do super cheap one way car rentals comes in handy. I'll fly somewhere then just drive 1-3 hours rather than worry about full flights in and out of a hub. If I do need to go to a hub like ORD or DEN and it's full, and a one way drive to MRY or SMF won't get me on an open flight, then I find a route where the same plane goes on to DEN/ORD everyday like doing SFO-CLD-DEN last month. There's almost always a way, as long as you don't check luggage.

That being said, i wonder if some of you in this friend are checking LAX/SFO/SEA to Asia and Europe because what i'm seeing with my own eyes when I look at loads and what I am reading here? Do not match. I think you guys just need to backtrack to California lol, I mean SFO-MUC for one is open all the damn time. FCO too. 160 open to MNL when I go in 3 weeks. HKG was wide open, too.
 
ChasenSFO said:
I'm the same way now, if I have any doubt i'm gonna get on, I buy a myUAdiscount unless the price is still crazy. This is where me being able to do super cheap one way car rentals comes in handy. I'll fly somewhere then just drive 1-3 hours rather than worry about full flights in and out of a hub. If I do need to go to a hub like ORD or DEN and it's full, and a one way drive to MRY or SMF won't get me on an open flight, then I find a route where the same plane goes on to DEN/ORD everyday like doing SFO-CLD-DEN last month. There's almost always a way, as long as you don't check luggage.

That being said, i wonder if some of you in this friend are checking LAX/SFO/SEA to Asia and Europe because what i'm seeing with my own eyes when I look at loads and what I am reading here? Do not match. I think you guys just need to backtrack to California lol, I mean SFO-MUC for one is open all the damn time. FCO too. 160 open to MNL when I go in 3 weeks. HKG was wide open, too.
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Some airlines definitely seem better at filling planes than others. A lot of my United friends seem to have no problem getting Polaris, getting the equivalent on my airline is such a rarity I always figure if you’re going to end up in row 47, you might as well buy a ticket and know you’re getting there.
 
ChasenSFO said:
I mean SFO-MUC for one is open all the damn time. FCO too. 160 open to MNL when I go in 3 weeks. HKG was wide open, too.
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I dont know how/what/when you’re looking, but every time I search intl especially out of SFO, things are pretty full.

When I do see a fair amount of premium seats about, I’ll click in boarding totals and the Premier Upgrades are typically more then the amount of open premium seats. Genuinely glad it’s working out for you though.
 
JordanD said:
Some airlines definitely seem better at filling planes than others. A lot of my United friends seem to have no problem getting Polaris, getting the equivalent on my airline is such a rarity I always figure if you’re going to end up in row 47, you might as well buy a ticket and know you’re getting there.
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Alaska decided the way they were going to make Atmos popular was give Titanium members free upgrades on international flights. There is no such thing as non rev in business class on international anymore, and there wasn't any non rev domestically in business class in their system to begin with because of the limited premium seats and the fact that they upgrade every status member.

It's kind of sad going from the system I was under (pretty easy to score international business class standby) to this one, but it's just the way it is with airlines monetizing absolutely everything.
 
BobDDuck said:
Alaska decided the way they were going to make Atmos popular was give Titanium members free upgrades on international flights. There is no such thing as non rev in business class on international anymore, and there wasn't any non rev domestically in business class in their system to begin with because of the limited premium seats and the fact that they upgrade every status member.

It's kind of sad going from the system I was under (pretty easy to score international business class standby) to this one, but it's just the way it is with airlines monetizing absolutely everything.
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The ol’ bait and switch? The drug dealer that gives you some free powder to get you hooked knowing you’ll come back and spend money?

The next iteration of the Atmos program probably gets devalued. By that point folks have their loyalty/golden hand cuffs and if they want to fly premium, cough up the cash.
 
BobDDuck said:
Alaska decided the way they were going to make Atmos popular was give Titanium members free upgrades on international flights. There is no such thing as non rev in business class on international anymore, and there wasn't any non rev domestically in business class in their system to begin with because of the limited premium seats and the fact that they upgrade every status member.

It's kind of sad going from the system I was under (pretty easy to score international business class standby) to this one, but it's just the way it is with airlines monetizing absolutely everything.
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When I worked at AS first class as a non-rev was $50 per 1000 miles. Or was it 500 miles, even as a gate agent it came up so rarely I had to look it up each time.

I think in 5 years I was given the opportunity twice, I declined both times.
 
Karnage said:
When I worked at AS first class as a non-rev was $50 per 1000 miles. Or was it 500 miles, even as a gate agent it came up so rarely I had to look it up each time.

I think in 5 years I was given the opportunity twice, I declined both times.
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It's free now... you just can't ever get it.

Also don't get me started on the stupidity around trying to call business class first class.
 
We started selling upgrades at the gate, and it has “trained” a lot of our customers that they can buy a $600 ticket, wait at the gate and spend another $800 to get the premium instead of spending $3,000 up front for the ticket. Thus non revs eliminated.

Which sucks. I hear about our legendary first-class product and I’ve yet to experience it.
 
Karnage said:
When I worked at AS first class as a non-rev was $50 per 1000 miles. Or was it 500 miles, even as a gate agent it came up so rarely I had to look it up each time.

I think in 5 years I was given the opportunity twice, I declined both times.
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I randomly got upgraded both legs of my commute home the other day.
 
ahw01 said:
Is there a reason why its Y or J or...?
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It would be J vs. F (historically).

But it's more about that no US carrier has a product equal to First Class when you look at other international carriers with true first class products. Hawaiian switched to the Business Class naming about 10 years ago when they went heavy into Japanese markets. With how their product compared to JAL (and even ANA) and especially companies like Singapore and Thai, it didn't make sense to market something as First Class when it really wasn't. That carried over domestically so the branding for the narrowbody flying (except the 717s inter island for some reason) became Business Class instead of First Class.

Alaska has a domestic first class product (that is really closer to premium economy on most international carriers, but domestically held up ok until the lay flat business class seats started making an appearance in narrowbody aircraft. They tried to push the First Class branding over to the widebody operation out of Seattle, but I think they've settled on "Suite Seating" as a compromise.
 
Is this the thread to complain about the auto seat assign? I’m not a huge dude but I haaaate that it always gives me an aisle seat, hello cart, goodbye elbows and knees.
 
BobDDuck said:
It would be J vs. F (historically).

But it's more about that no US carrier has a product equal to First Class when you look at other international carriers with true first class products. Hawaiian switched to the Business Class naming about 10 years ago when they went heavy into Japanese markets. With how their product compared to JAL (and even ANA) and especially companies like Singapore and Thai, it didn't make sense to market something as First Class when it really wasn't. That carried over domestically so the branding for the narrowbody flying (except the 717s inter island for some reason) became Business Class instead of First Class.

Alaska has a domestic first class product (that is really closer to premium economy on most international carriers, but domestically held up ok until the lay flat business class seats started making an appearance in narrowbody aircraft. They tried to push the First Class branding over to the widebody operation out of Seattle, but I think they've settled on "Suite Seating" as a compromise.
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I really DGAF what they call it, it’s both outside my area of responsibility and something I have literally no control over. I’m more worried about a certain demographic of pilots in gig harbor fumbling the chance to get some gains in work rules in the JCBA in exchange for the chance for credit • to bank even more $$$
 
Roger Roger said:
I really DGAF what they call it, it’s both outside my area of responsibility and something I have literally no control over. I’m more worried about a certain demographic of pilots in gig harbor fumbling the chance to get some gains in work rules in the JCBA in exchange for the chance for credit • to bank even more $$$
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I care mostly because when they sell it as First Class (on an international destination coming to the US) and you get a passenger with WAY higher expectations than what the product actually is, our FAs have to deal with it. And then the pax gets on whatever forum/facebook/nextdoor type thing they are on, and talks crap about the airline, which eventually decreased profitability and my profitshare PBP check.
 
BobDDuck said:
I care mostly because when they sell it as First Class (on an international destination coming to the US) and you get a passenger with WAY higher expectations than what the product actually is, our FAs have to deal with it. And then the pax gets on whatever forum/facebook/nextdoor type thing they are on, and talks crap about the airline, which eventually decreased profitability and my profitshare PBP check.
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Asking this mostly out of ignorance cuz I haven't personally experienced it yet. Every person I've talked to that has flown the international business class out of Seattle has said it's by far the worst service they have ever seen by a pretty far stretch. Everyone seems to want to blame this on the FAs, which I'm sure is absolutely stupid. Any insight as to what's going on?
 
word302 said:
Asking this mostly out of ignorance cuz I haven't personally experienced it yet. Every person I've talked to that has flown the international business class out of Seattle has said it's by far the worst service they have ever seen by a pretty far stretch. Everyone seems to want to blame this on the FAs, which I'm sure is absolutely stupid. Any insight as to what's going on?
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Realistically, I'd say the product and the service are pretty on par with Delta One and United Polaris. The cabin crews are either very senior (the top end that voluntarily moved up there from the LA base or out from HNL) or very junior (new hires and the bottom end that got force moved over). The issue around blaming the FAs seems to be company and Alaska AFA generated because HAL AFA complained about the service level being required. Some of them seemed surprised that they get scheduled breaks on these flights.

I've flown as a paying passenger in the back once, and as a non rev up front once on the routes with the new service. It seems like it was designed by people who had never flown on a widebody aircraft before, let alone done service on one. The timings and positions of where the FAs need to be to get stuff done at certain times just doesn't work. The products are ok, but they don't work with the prep timing and storage, or for what he service requires the FAs to do, it just isn't possible with the number they've got on board. I think, because it's HAL crew's doing it now, it's been pretty easy for Alaska FA's to just say oh, they are being lazy or they are unskilled and that catches on, which plays right into the Company's hands.
 
BobDDuck said:
Alaska decided the way they were going to make Atmos popular was give Titanium members free upgrades on international flights. There is no such thing as non rev in business class on international anymore, and there wasn't any non rev domestically in business class in their system to begin with because of the limited premium seats and the fact that they upgrade every status member.

It's kind of sad going from the system I was under (pretty easy to score international business class standby) to this one, but it's just the way it is with airlines monetizing absolutely everything.
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Monetizing everything? Pretty sure that airline was losing money YOYs. Heaven forbid AS put literally the top end freq flyers into bid to encourage further future loyalty?


Sorry. I’m just grumpy because of the certain few HALs on APC. Especially that vaxxedtothemax dude.
 
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