Who can you complain to...

Autothrust Blue said:
Get this: Nashville...

I deal with Regional every day now and considering the traffic volume they're very reasonable. Much less touchy than their Chicago or NYC counterparts.
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My experience was back in '05, so maybe grumpy retired, but let's just say it was not pleasant dealing with him. I mapped Long Island (don't remember the county, but was up against JFK and LGA all day long, and have nothing but good things to say about them working with me to get it done.
 
Stone Cold said:
My experience was back in '05, so maybe grumpy retired, but let's just say it was not pleasant dealing with him. I mapped Long Island (don't remember the county, but was up against JFK and LGA all day long, and have nothing but good things to say about them working with me to get it done.
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Regional/DFW have more capacity (really excess capacity) than they'd care to admit. It comes in handy when the weather is down, or there's a skydive or photo operation in progress.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Regional/DFW have more capacity (really excess capacity) than they'd care to admit. It comes in handy when the weather is down, or there's a skydive or photo operation in progress.
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Trust me, I know...the funniest moment was I was almost finished. We had 2 others there for a while, and they left for other places, and I was there solo. So, I would call grumpy up, and discuss the grids for the day. Nope, won't happen, we're landing to the north today, so we can't allow that. Okay, call the boss and let him know the grids we have left and what grumpy said. So we try again the next day, and the same thing. So, the following day, we had a south flow, and I had a few grids left (maybe 20 or so), which I had discussed with the sup and made sure he had the map so we were on the same page. So, he says nope, it's too close to downwind, so can't allow it. I reminded him politely that I would be at 3500' (I think it was) and the downwind would be at 6-8K". He says no, so I call the boss.

The next day I call up, and I quote to this day, "you must know some high up people," permission granted for grids XYZ. So I go fly, and do the grids, and they switch operations, so I ask permission for the few grids I had left out of their way. Controller was nice and said, sure, no problem. So I start in on a few out of the way grids for their flow, and then all of a sudden, the controller comes back as I'm starting and says the sup wants you to land and call him. Okay, I already know what's coming, but I call.

He says I told you grids XYZ, why are you where you are? Well, you switched flows, and I was trying to accommodate you and do what I could. You are done for the day. We'll talk to your supervisor and discuss this.

So, I call the boss upon landing and tell him what happened, and he laughs, and says, ah yes, grumpy. don"t worry about it, you tried your best to work with him. Reposition to Albuquerque, and go from there. Not sure what ever happened to him, but the most "assholeish" thing I have ever seen in aviation to this point in my career. It was like that the entire time we were there, but that just capped it off. That year, our group never finished our grids in the DFW area. I'm sure the tax guys were not happy with "regional approach" after that...
 
I had my run ins with houston, cinncy, and chicago, though chicago had to be the worst. Trying to work with them (as in flight following outside of protected airspace, comm not required) and several days of bickering and their unwillingness to change anything from their normal routine I gave up and did the 1200 squawk missions. At least 6 Southwest inbounds got RAs as a result of this controllers inflexibility and rudeness.

I will say Cinncy came around and worked well after the point was made, "we weren't leaving anytime soon". Some controllers were perturbed at any increase in their workload and rejected us right away while others took it in stride and had two sit at one screen and literately have me work across outer markers at a bravo airport for hours. One shows professionalism and the other well not so much. I was asked to land and "fax" more stuff that had already been faxed 3 times "claiming" they never got it but I always took it in stride and never chastised them although it certainly came the other way.

Had a couple of slight oopsies over the years and by in large it was never an ordeal after 10 minutes. Hopefully it stays that way but from what I read the culture is increasingly pressuring them to be the police and not just the traffic light.
 
Stone Cold said:
Trust me, I know...the funniest moment was I was almost finished. We had 2 others there for a while, and they left for other places, and I was there solo. So, I would call grumpy up, and discuss the grids for the day. Nope, won't happen, we're landing to the north today, so we can't allow that. Okay, call the boss and let him know the grids we have left and what grumpy said. So we try again the next day, and the same thing. So, the following day, we had a south flow, and I had a few grids left (maybe 20 or so), which I had discussed with the sup and made sure he had the map so we were on the same page. So, he says nope, it's too close to downwind, so can't allow it. I reminded him politely that I would be at 3500' (I think it was) and the downwind would be at 6-8K". He says no, so I call the boss.

The next day I call up, and I quote to this day, "you must know some high up people," permission granted for grids XYZ. So I go fly, and do the grids, and they switch operations, so I ask permission for the few grids I had left out of their way. Controller was nice and said, sure, no problem. So I start in on a few out of the way grids for their flow, and then all of a sudden, the controller comes back as I'm starting and says the sup wants you to land and call him. Okay, I already know what's coming, but I call.

He says I told you grids XYZ, why are you where you are? Well, you switched flows, and I was trying to accommodate you and do what I could. You are done for the day. We'll talk to your supervisor and discuss this.

So, I call the boss upon landing and tell him what happened, and he laughs, and says, ah yes, grumpy. don"t worry about it, you tried your best to work with him. Reposition to Albuquerque, and go from there. Not sure what ever happened to him, but the most "assholeish" thing I have ever seen in aviation to this point in my career. It was like that the entire time we were there, but that just capped it off. That year, our group never finished our grids in the DFW area. I'm sure the tax guys were not happy with "regional approach" after that...
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When I flew survey, if they were that unaccommodating, we'd consider flying a holding pattern at an IAF or major arrival fix at the altitude the jets needed to be at. Like in socal, you could go loiter on SILEX and no one is going into BUR anytime soon, and it's in E airspace, so there's nothing they can do. It's also like the biggest dick move possible. "I can hold here for 6 hours, or we can work with each other and get this done so I can leave."
 
z987k said:
When I flew survey, if they were that unaccommodating, we'd consider flying a holding pattern at an IAF or major arrival fix at the altitude the jets needed to be at. Like in socal, you could go loiter on SILEX and no one is going into BUR anytime soon, and it's in E airspace, so there's nothing they can do. It's also like the biggest dick move possible. "I can hold here for 6 hours, or we can work with each other and get this done so I can leave."
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Nice! Wish I had thought of that one....

Last time a controller got grumpy with me (last week in DAL), I just asked, "Did I do something wrong?"
"NO"
"Then would you please stop treating me like I did? We really can all get along"
An annonymous "Amen!" came over the radio. The controller lightened up immediately....sometimes I think we aren't aware of how we come across...
 
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