Which would you choose? (Stay CFI vs 135 Charter)

[rd757]

I have an opportunity that has come up that is basically a salaried position (for roughly the same amount of money I'm making now as a CFI) to fly a small CJ1-4 series aircraft - SIC on a 135 certificate. I'm currently full time instructing flying around 50-60hrs a month. The airplane from the opportunity doesn't fly nearly as much as I could as an instructor. They want a 2yr contract and it comes with a full PIC type from the start.

The issue I have is that I'm at 1350hrs and was initially planning on trying to get into a regional once I hit the magical ATP mins (should only be a couple of months, I hope). XC time isn't building fast enough as an instructor, but I feel like I would be building time at an even slower pace in the jet (roughly 100-200hrs/year). I wasn't a fan of the training contract at first, I see the reasoning for it, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. The last guy left after 6mos, without much notice. I'm flying 700-800hours per year now as a CFI.

Basically, I'm just looking for some opinions from people who have already been down forks in the road that I've found myself standing at.

TL;DR - Offer for a CJ 135 SIC, Full PIC type for the same pay now & training contract. Airplane flies 100-200hrs a year. Currently a full-time CFI and deciding to leave instructing for this or not.

 

[desertdog71]

Do both

 

[Itchy]

Used to be you would CFI to get to a job like that.

 

[TallFlyer]

I'm no expert on things on the charter side it seems to me that you may want to investigate the different salary surveys out there and see what a CJ SIC gets paid on the open market. While a training contract can be a tool to allow an operator to protect their investment it a also be used as an excuse for an operator to pay less than market rates for a given position. Said another way, if the pay is about the same as your CFI pay it sounds like they could be counting on your inexperience and enthusiasm for jet time as an excuse to pay you less than they might have to pay someone else. How much was the guy who bailed before you getting?

Ultimately, if you want to go fly for the airlines you should go do that. Getting to a good regional sooner rather than later will most likely end up paying you more than this CJ position would.

 

[Adler]

I'm no expert on things on the charter side it seems to me that you may want to investigate the different salary surveys out there and see what a CJ SIC gets paid on the open market. While a training contract can be a tool to allow an operator to protect their investment it a also be used as an excuse for an operator to pay less than market rates for a given position. Said another way, if the pay is about the same as your CFI pay it sounds like they could be counting on your inexperience and enthusiasm for jet time as an excuse to pay you less than they might have to pay someone else. How much was the guy who bailed before you getting?

Ultimately, if you want to go fly for the airlines you should go do that. Getting to a good regional sooner rather than later will most likely end up paying you more than this CJ position would.

http://www.safetystanddown.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Salary-study-6-12-lyt_June.pdf

 

[DE727UPS]

I think "do both", too. Maybe you could get a part time CFI job or free lance on the side.

 

[rd757]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the input. I've been back and forth on this a couple times already. Initially I said no thanks, they changed it to a guanantee, instead of a straight day rate. It's still not the market rate for that airplane, or what I was hoping for, but it's still going in the right direction.

I would hate to take this and then three months down the road, the flood gates open within the airlines and I get stuck in a contract.

 

[skydisaster]

If you want to be an airline pilot, be an airline pilot. If you want to stay on the GA side of the house, then you should take the CJ position.

Don't be afraid to have an honest conversation about what is expected of you and how much freedom that you would have to instruct or pick up other work on the side. Make sure that you also have a conversation about the likelihood of moving to the left seat at some point. If you are at 1300 now, you would only be at 1600-1700 hours after two years, without some additional flying on the side. it would be hard to upgrade at that point.

Also, don't discount the value of that first type rating. It is much easier to convince future employers of your trainability if you already have one type rating.

 

[fly02]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the input. I've been back and forth on this a couple times already. Initially I said no thanks, they changed it to a guanantee, instead of a straight day rate. It's still not the market rate for that airplane, or what I was hoping for, but it's still going in the right direction.

I would hate to take this and then three months down the road, the flood gates open within the airlines and I get stuck in a contract.

I would not take the CJ job if you are dead set on going to the airlines. I know some people start out with the airlines as their goal, but as they learn more about aviation as a career they decide the other options might provide a better QOL. Now, if you are open to a career outside the airlines, I would take the job in a heartbeat and try to keep the CFI gig part time.

 

[N519AT]

If you want to be an airline pilot, be an airline pilot. If you want to stay on the GA side of the house, then you should take the CJ position.

Yeah, that. The airlines are a good way to build up your TT fast. You can plan on anything from 700-900 hours a year. Before I went to my current airline I had a couple of opportunities to go somewhere where they flew <400 hrs per year. Had I lost either one of those jobs after a year or two I would have been back to square one where I was before I started working there because of my relatively low time.

My philosophy is that if I work my ass off now, by flying a metric poop ton, it will pay off later with a nice, cush flying job where the plane flies 200 hours a year.

 

[TallFlyer]

I would hate to take this and then three months down the road, the flood gates open within the airlines and I get stuck in a contract.

As far as the regionals are concerned the flood gates are open now. They are going to open more as time goes on with majors hiring, etc.

Where are you at with the rest of times for the ATP. You mentioned XC, how about night, inst, etc?

 

[rd757]

As far as the regionals are concerned the flood gates are open now. They are going to open more as time goes on with majors hiring, etc.

Where are you at with the rest of times for the ATP. You mentioned XC, how about night, inst, etc?

I meet the rest of them besides total and XC. The flood gates are open, but I keep hearing that they can't fill classes. I think there are a bunch of people sitting in roughly the same boat I am... just shy of ATP mins, hoping the rules change while trying to build time.

 

[TallFlyer]

I've heard it both ways regarding classes, so who knows? How much more XC do you need and how much of it are you getting in a given month?

 

[rd757]

I have 250 XC... so another 250 on top of that. As far as the classes, I guess the only person who does know is the one doing the hiring. Not us!

 

[TallFlyer]

I could see how that amount of time would take a while doing CFI work.

You could look into CASW. Night freight in aero commanders and they work off a 6 month "gentleman's agreement." Basically, they want you to stay for 6 months if they're going to train you. I've seen some openings posted for them recently.

 

[Crockrocket94]

Ryan, there will always be airlines hiring. I would suggest trying the CJ out and seeing if its even a part of aviation you would want to go in. 2 years and a type isnt the end of the world. Besides you could log Turbine PIC sooner rather than later. I dunno, but you can always switch gears down the road if you find out its not for you.

 

[rd757]

Thanks, I think I'm going to have to sit down and think about this one. I was all for the airlines when I started out in training, but always wanted to go the corporate route. I wish the offer made it an easier decision. A little more money or a little less commitment and I'd be out the door on the way to class. Thanks again for all the advice everyone!

 

[MikeOH58]

2013 Pro Pilot Salary Survey has Charter Jet - First Officer - CE525

Average - 43k
Low - 36k
High - 48k

 

[rd757]

If I wanted to negotiate a different contract, what would be the best means of going about this?

 

[Crockrocket94]

Well, at our company in the past when HR has thrown out a Offer, generally someone throws out a counteroffer and HR will meet in the middle. Ive seen it happen a bunch.