Which Regional

N

njboeingfan

Well-Known Member
Apologies if this is in the wrong thread, but I could use the help from the pros here. I should hit the 1,000TT mark next month, so I have been sending out applications via airlineapps. I am an older career changer as some of you know; I will be 45 this year, have a law degree and a solid UGPA (over 3.3). Current CFI/CFII, flying the trusty 172 and my multi time is in a seminole. I have interviews with Commutair, & Air Wisconsin, but I am thinking about the AA WO, too. I heard terrible things about the training from both companies for varying issues, plus I've heard older folks struggle during initial training. Are the AA WOs the way to go (assuming I get an interview & offer)? Expressjet and Commutair have a base in my home airport so that is a huge plus, and I am an hour from PHL too. No checkride failures or disciplinary issues as well. Any thoughts? Thanks all!
 
Go where you don’t have to commute.

What are your goals though? If it’s the majors your only real shot is a WO.
 
Well I could be wrong but the amount of people getting hired at the majors at 45+, just starting out in the airline industry, without military experience has to be very very slim. Granted this guy has a solid resume so I could be wrong, I don’t have any real insider info on who gets hired
 
Cory Trevor said:
Well I could be wrong but the amount of people getting hired at the majors at 45+, just starting out in the airline industry, without military experience has to be very very slim. Granted this guy has a solid resume so I could be wrong, I don’t have any real insider info on who gets hired
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Times are different. If you have the quals, you can get hired without respect to age.

I've seen guys get hired in their late 50s and even a few post-60.

45 is relatively young.

If anything, this proves what some have been saying all along....there isn't a pilot shortage. The pay has finally risen to where it needs to be to start attracting people to the biz.
 
Most of the older guys who struggled at PSA (55+), were guys who were not IFR current/proficient. The training department isn't there to refresh you on IFR procedures. You're there to learn how they want you to fly the jet. With that said, I had a good experience with the training department/process when I went through 14 months ago. My Indoc instructor was a retired Air Cal/AA guy. My IPT (interactive touch screen 'paper tiger') instructor was a helpful guy. Though recently I've heard the majority of them are individuals who didn't pass their PC rides and took the position of ground instructor with an opportunity to try and become line qualified at a later date.

In my opinion if you're looking into a regional to get into I'd choose one of the WO's. Either AA's (PSA, Piedmont, Envoy), Delta's (Endeavor), or if you wanted to go to an independent either Air Whisky or Skywest. But if you have one that gives you a shorter (1 leg) or no commute I'd choose that one!

But honestly, go interview with all of the carriers you are interested in and see which one you think will fit you best. Doesn't hurt to interview.
 
Having worked at both Air Wisconsin and CommutAir, I would say it depends on your overall goals.

If you want to do 20 years at a regional, by all means go to Air Whiskey. Awesome pilot group, contract is solid, healthcare and 401k are top notch for the regionals (health insurance may be the best of ANY airline). It is the place I would want to be if I got "stuck" at the regionals.

As for CommutAir, it is where I would go if your ultimate goal is United. The Career Path Program they have is the best of the three United Express carriers simply because it is such a small, junior pilot group that you won't be waiting 5+ years to go. It has already reached the point that guys and gals are going as soon as they get their 1000 PIC. The contract and benefits aren't nearly as good as AW so it is definitely a place to get in, get your time, and get the heck out.

As others have said, not having to commute is huge for you quality of life. The caveat to that is that sometimes your base closes and you are stuck commuting anyway.

As far as the training, Air Wisconsin has been flying CRJ-200s since what seems like the Lindbergh days. Their training reflects that; they teach you what you need to know and sprinkle in some random knowledge -- care to guess how much the batteries weigh? -- here and there. CommutAir, on the other hand, has been flying the EMB-145 for less than 2 years and their training certainly reflects that. The first few months of systems classes were given wrong information, shown PowerPoint slides with DHC-8 stuff, and had to basically figure stuff out on their own. The training has definitely gotten better and the instructors they have now are working hard to continuously improve the training program. It is still a work in progress but you will learn everything you need to know for an oral and to safely operate the airplane. Neither training program is necessarily "hard", you just have to have a good attitude, work ethic, and stay focused throughout and you will do fine.

Good luck with whatever you choose. Feel free to ask any other questions.

Edit to add: I completely agree with what was posted above. No matter where you go, the people that struggle are either weak on IFR procedures, lock themselves in their room every night and don't study with the rest of their class, or both. Make sure you are IFR proficient before you get to class and definitely "cooperate to graduate".
 
njboeingfan said:
Apologies if this is in the wrong thread, but I could use the help from the pros here. I should hit the 1,000TT mark next month, so I have been sending out applications via airlineapps. I am an older career changer as some of you know; I will be 45 this year, have a law degree and a solid UGPA (over 3.3). Current CFI/CFII, flying the trusty 172 and my multi time is in a seminole. I have interviews with Commutair, & Air Wisconsin, but I am thinking about the AA WO, too. I heard terrible things about the training from both companies for varying issues, plus I've heard older folks struggle during initial training. Are the AA WOs the way to go (assuming I get an interview & offer)? Expressjet and Commutair have a base in my home airport so that is a huge plus, and I am an hour from PHL too. No checkride failures or disciplinary issues as well. Any thoughts? Thanks all!
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I suspect the AA wholly owneds are probably the best choice. Right now as far as I know Envoy pats the most except for Endeavir; and the flow would come in handy if you can't get hired at a major the regular way. PSA is opening a base in PHL soon, so it might be relatively easy to get PHL if you go there. And of course Piedmont has a base there as well.

Endeavor might be worth looking into as well; they pay the most of any regional.

Republic might be a good choice also, they have bases in EWR and PHL and I think EWR is usually pretty junior. They pay almost as well as Endeavour. Also, I think they may have a more secure future than most regionals; both because they operate for 3 different mainline partners (more diversification in case one partner decides to drop them or goes out of business); and because they have a relatively new, all-70 to 76 seat fleet, so their fleet likely won't be retired as soon. 50-seat jets have a relatively high cost per seat mile; and a few years ago when oil was more expensive a lot of airlines said they planned to park many of the 50 seaters. This is something that worries me about regions with all 50-seat jet fleet, including my employer; I could definitely see us going the way of Comair next time oil gets expensive.

*Edited: PDA and Piedmont they pay is comparable to Air Wisconsin or CommutAir, not significantly higher.
 
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Yakob said:
I suspect the AA wholly owneds are probably the best choice. Right now they pay the most; and the flow would come in handy if you can't get hired at a major the regular way. PSA is opening a base in PHL soon, so it might be relatively easy to get PHL if you go there. And of course Piedmont has a base there as well.

Endeavor might be worth looking into as well; they pay the most of any regional.

Republic might be a good choice also, they have bases in EWR and PHL and I think EWR is usually pretty junior. They pay almost as well as Endeavour. Also, I think they may have a more secure future than most regionals; both because they operate for 3 different mainline partners (more diversification in case one partner decides to drop them or goes out of business); and because they have a relatively new, all-70 to 76 seat fleet, so their fleet likely won't be retired as soon. 50-seat jets have a relatively high cost per seat mile; and a few years ago when oil was more expensive a lot of airlines said they planned to park many of the 50 seaters. This is something that worries me about regions with all 50-seat jet fleet, including my employer; I could definitely see us going the way of Comair next time oil gets expensive.
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Pay the most? PSA doesn't pay squat. PHL is small right now, I think it's only 20 lines with 50 guys in each seat, no idea if it will get bigger and also the initial award for PHL and ORF was so convoluted no one knows if they're going senior or junior.
 
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mshunter said:
Don't ever ever do that again. That place is full of a bunch of disgruntled blowhards. Oh, and the answer to this question will be vastly different in less than 5 years.
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Not only blowhards who seem to enjoy being outraged over everything, but outright trolls too. @njboeingfan most of the info on there about CommutAir should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. My favorite was when someone claimed that our ERJ deliveries were being halted by the FAA, because of a fictional incident where a jumpseater heroically prevented a stall that the C5 crew failed to recover from.
 
I may be mistaken about the pay rates, but I'm pretty sure it's more than most regionals. I know for a fact it is more than at least one of the regionals the OP interviewed at.
 
Yakob said:
I may be mistaken about the pay rates, but I'm pretty sure it's more than most regionals. I know for a fact it is more than at least one of the regionals the OP interviewed at.
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We'll see, the pay rate *should* go up, but the union keeps dealing in flow.
 
Soku39 said:
Pay the most? PSA doesn't pay squat. PHL is small right now, I think it's only 20 lines with 50 guys in each seat, no idea if it will get bigger and also the initial award for PHL and ORF was so convoluted no one knows if they're going senior or junior.
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Soku39 said:
We'll see, the pay rate *should* go up, but the union keeps dealing in flow.
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I looked at the rates more closely and it appears you're right. PSA pays more than CommutAir the first year, but after that it looks like you'd make more at CommutAir as an FO. PSAs captain rates are higher than CommutAir 's however, but in general it looks like Envoy is the only AS wholly owned with pay much higher than C5 or air Wisconsin. I also didn't realize PHL was going to be such a small base. Sorry to post bad information. I edited my post above.
 
Yakob said:
I looked at the rates more closely and it appears you're right. PSA pays more than CommutAir the first year, but after that it looks like you'd make more at CommutAir as an FO. PSAs captain rates are higher than CommutAir 's however, but in general it looks like Envoy is the only AS wholly owned with pay much higher than C5 or air Wisconsin. I also didn't realize PHL was going to be such a small base. Sorry to post bad information. I edited my post above.
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No prob, who can keep up with all this stuff? I came to said regional for a line, SAP, and driving to work. I make money in the guard too, so it's not a big deal for me, or guys whose wives have good jobs etc. My general annoyance is that we keep upping our flow instead of getting cash. IF/WHEN the economy tanks and AA stops having classes, which no entity of PSA has control over, and I get trapped at the regional I'd rather be making more than having a worthless flow.
 
PHL isn’t necessarily going to be a “small” base. We haven’t even officially opened it yet (opens in May). It will grow just as CVG and DCA did in years past. ORF will likely remain a small operation.

To the OP, if you have any questions about PSA feel free to shoot me a PM.
 
If you are thinking of going to a AA wholly owned think twice about it you are thinking of the flow. There are enough pilots in front of you seniority wise at the w/o to fill every Aa retirement slot for at least 10 years assuming 60% new AA hires are from the flow and that only half of w/o pilots wait for the flow. Not to mention crappy work rules and a good chance of long reserve.
 
tbflyer said:
If you are thinking of going to a AA wholly owned think twice about it you are thinking of the flow. There are enough pilots in front of you seniority wise at the w/o to fill every Aa retirement slot for at least 10 years assuming 60% new AA hires are from the flow and that only half of w/o pilots wait for the flow. Not to mention crappy work rules and a good chance of long reserve.
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This is not accurate information.
 
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