which maneuvers for the commercial?

skidz

Well-Known Member
My comm syllabus says they ask for either steep turns or steep spiral and chandelle or lazy 8 on the check ride...

soo...what's the deal with power off 180, eights on pylons and that sort of stuff? Is that in addition to the above mentioned maneuvers or just a different way the maneuvers have being called?

:confused:
 

tgrayson

New Member
My comm syllabus says they ask for either steep turns or steep spiral and chandelle or lazy 8 on the check ride...
soo...what's the deal with power off 180, eights on pylons and that sort of stuff? Is that in addition to the above mentioned maneuvers or just a different way the maneuvers have being called?
The answer lies in the Commercial PTS, not the syllabus.

Steep Turns, Steep Spirals, Chandelles, and Lazy 8s are performance maneuvers and you will need to do two of them. The examiner is limited in his choice of combinations; check the PTS to see the exact requirements.

Power-off 180s are in the Takeoff and Landings Area of Operation and are required.

Eights on Pylons are ground reference maneuvers and are required.
 

Kmaceri

Well-Known Member
Expect to do every commercial maneuver in the check ride because in most cases you will. I did, make sure you do clearing turns before each maneuver.

My checkride
Southeast departure
Power On/Off Stalls
Chandelles
Steep Turns
Steep Spirals
Lazy Eights
Eights on Pylons
Landings includes power off 180.

That was about it, its around an hour flight.
 

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
I did more on my commercial x ride with a DPE than my CFI initial with the feds.

Read the PTS. Not some syllabus.
 

Micaoct

Well-Known Member
None of my instructors taught me how to use the PTS. I didn't even bother buying one for commercial or Instrument, and I didn't touch it during private; and I've been thru 5-6 instructors already. Sad.
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
None of my instructors taught me how to use the PTS. I didn't even bother buying one for commercial or Instrument, and I didn't touch it during private; and I've been thru 5-6 instructors already. Sad.
so even if your instructor didn't teach you how to use it, you don't care about what standards you will be held to?
 

tgrayson

New Member
so even if your instructor didn't teach you how to use it, you don't care about what standards you will be held to?
I'm fairly sure that none of my students ever read the PTS, other than CFI students. Why should they? That's my job. In fact, I'd rather they didn't; they might get the idea that +-100 feet on altitude is acceptable. ;)

Overall, I wouldn't expect students to start reading the PTS until maybe their Commercial certificates; up until then, they have too much other stuff to learn that's directly relevant to their ratings to spend much time second-guessing the instructor, unless they suspect the instructor isn't particularly thorough.
 

Micaoct

Well-Known Member
so even if your instructor didn't teach you how to use it, you don't care about what standards you will be held to?
Not really, as far as I'm concerned I should be aiming for +/- 0 at all times. Strive for perfection on every flight and get as close as I can. I don't want to just "be" at 60 feet off just because the PTS says its OK. I'm sure I am going to be hitting it hard during CFI, but so far it has never helped me. Just review everything and learn all I can, even if its more then the PTS asks. If I just go only by what the PTS wants that just gives me the minimums requirements. You can't be a safe pilot with just the minimums. Just my $.02.
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
Not really, as far as I'm concerned I should be aiming for +/- 0 at all times. Strive for perfection on every flight and get as close as I can. I don't want to just "be" at 60 feet off just because the PTS says its OK. I'm sure I am going to be hitting it hard during CFI, but so far it has never helped me. Just review everything and learn all I can, even if its more then the PTS asks. If I just go only by what the PTS wants that just gives me the minimums requirements. You can't be a safe pilot with just the minimums. Just my $.02.
i completely agree 100%, and i want my students to be perfect as well. but i also believe they should have some idea of what the final standards are, so if they get nervous on the ride they can at least know that if they did a steep turn that was 80ft off it isn't necessarily unsat, and not get all stressed about it. if you don't meet MY standards, you don't go for your checkride, simple as that.

i wish our standards were viewed the same way as the JCAB, because their numbers are looser, but the standards are viewed tighter. it isn't good enough to be off by say 100ft, you need to be correcting. whereas our PTS says eh, anywhere w/in that 100 is ok
 

js0305

Well-Known Member
First of all the examiner is not limited to anything, even if the PTS says "task F and one other". This is just a suggestion to cut down on time. You must be able to perform every task in every area of operation to the minimum standards (PTS). In other words if you are borderline PTS on a task, the examiner can and will ask you to perform any additional maneuver he or she feels necessary to determine that you are competent to hold the rating sought.
 

tgrayson

New Member
First of all the examiner is not limited to anything, even if the PTS says "task F and one other". This is just a suggestion to cut down on time.
You're right in that the examiner can ask for any maneuver in each area of operation. But when it says "Task F and one other", that's more than a suggestion. The examiner must have the candidate perform two task in that area of operation and one must be task F. And the examiner IS limited to PTS maneuvers.
 

js0305

Well-Known Member
You're right in that the examiner can ask for any maneuver in each area of operation. But when it says "Task F and one other", that's more than a suggestion. The examiner must have the candidate perform two task in that area of operation and one must be task F. And the examiner IS limited to PTS maneuvers.
I agree that the examiner is REQUIRED to do the task and one other, but he/she can also ask you to do any number of tasks in the area even if it says "task F and one other". Take a CFI ride at Scottsdale FSDO if you think different- and be prepared to cover every task in every area of operation. A 12 hour oral is not uncommon.
 

Hubbs

Well-Known Member
The commercial PTS says (amongst other things) that the examiner shall select at least 1 from A&B and at least 1 from C&D (A~Steep Turns, B~Steep Spirals, C~Chandelles, D~Lazy 8s) Thus you need to be prepared to fly all 4.
 
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