Which freq to hold short on?

BobDDuck

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Scenario...

Given clearance to taxi from ground control which Included a runway hold short instruction for the active landing runway.

We taxied to the hold short location. After clearing the last taxiway prior to the hold short location I switched over to tower frequency and we held short. After a minute tower called to ask if we were on their frequency and then then cleared us across the runway and told us to hold short of the takeoff runway (duh?). She then told me that I shouldn't have switched from the ground frequency.

I have always been under the impression that the tower controller has to issue a clearance across an active runway. I looked through the .65 and the AIM and couldn't find anything conclusive one way or the other.

Thoughts?

This specific airport does a ton of things that are non standard, so I really don't know if they are right or not.
 
I'd say if the clearance was to taxi to rwy 24 via A4, A, B hold short runway 30, it wouldnt occur to me to switch to tower holding short of 30 whether it was active or not
 
I would have stayed on ground frequency. They probably would have cleared you to cross then told you monitor or contact tower.
 
Depends on the airport. Some will never clear you to cross on ground. You'll switch to tower to cross and back to ground on the other side.
Others will keep you on ground.
If they don't tell you to switch, don't. That way you're always right.
 
The AIM says to stay on ground until ready for departure, but like all things from the FAA actual procedures appear to be consistently inconsistent.


4−3−14. Communications

a. Pilots of departing aircraft should communicate with the control tower on the appropriate ground control/clearance delivery frequency prior to starting engines to receive engine start time, taxi and/or clearance information. Unless otherwise advised by the tower, remain on that frequency during taxiing and runup, then change to local control frequency when ready to request takeoff clearance.

NOTE−

Pilots are encouraged to monitor the local tower frequency as soon as practical consistent with other ATC requirements.

REFERENCE−

AIM, Paragraph 4−1−13 , Automatic Terminal Information Service (ATIS)

b. The tower controller will consider that pilots of turbine−powered aircraft are ready for takeoff when they reach the runway or warm−up block unless advised otherwise.
 
Some towers find it easier to have local issue runway crossings because for whatever reason it is easier than the ground controller having to coordinate with the local controller to do it. But either way remain on your assigned frequency until told otherwise and if in doubt just ask.
 
BobDDuck said:
Scenario...

Given clearance to taxi from ground control which Included a runway hold short instruction for the active landing runway.

We taxied to the hold short location. After clearing the last taxiway prior to the hold short location I switched over to tower frequency and we held short. After a minute tower called to ask if we were on their frequency and then then cleared us across the runway and told us to hold short of the takeoff runway (duh?). She then told me that I shouldn't have switched from the ground frequency.

I have always been under the impression that the tower controller has to issue a clearance across an active runway. I looked through the .65 and the AIM and couldn't find anything conclusive one way or the other.

Thoughts?

This specific airport does a ton of things that are non standard, so I really don't know if they are right or not.
Click to expand...

Lihue going off of 17? Because literally every time.
 
ppragman said:
Lihue going off of 17? Because literally every time.
Click to expand...

Yep.

Ground expects you to switch to tower automatically there anyways. I've heard crews get yelled at for not switching over because tower was trying to reach them when they were still a few thousand feet from the runway end.
 
BobDDuck said:
Yep.

Ground expects you to switch to tower automatically there anyways. I've heard crews get yelled at for not switching over because tower was trying to reach them when they were still a few thousand feet from the runway end.
Click to expand...

They're good people up in the cab there, lemme see if I can get the number for them. I used to call them all the time with weird medevac requests (like asking if they could pass on critical status to hcf).

After a couple weeks worth of "weirdness" I just got the numbers for there, ITO, and MKK, and just figured out exactly what they wanted. Its not standard but so is Kauai.
 
BobDDuck said:
Scenario...

Given clearance to taxi from ground control which Included a runway hold short instruction for the active landing runway.

We taxied to the hold short location. After clearing the last taxiway prior to the hold short location I switched over to tower frequency and we held short. After a minute tower called to ask if we were on their frequency and then then cleared us across the runway and told us to hold short of the takeoff runway (duh?). She then told me that I shouldn't have switched from the ground frequency.

I have always been under the impression that the tower controller has to issue a clearance across an active runway. I looked through the .65 and the AIM and couldn't find anything conclusive one way or the other.

Thoughts?

This specific airport does a ton of things that are non standard, so I really don't know if they are right or not.
Click to expand...
So you were holding short of a runway, that you expected to cross, enroute to another runway that you would depart?
In that scenario I wouldn't have changed to tower without instruction to do so.
 
We just had this senario happen at PDX. 28L/10R was closed. Company pilot was told to hold short for North runways. Said pilot taxied up to South runways and held while switching to Tower. Then with 5 airplanes (I was #3 behind) holding behind our wayward pilot who was where they were supposed to be but on wrong frequency held up literally half the airport while ground tried to reach said pilot on everything but South tower freq for a good 5 - 10 mins.
 
av8tr1 said:
We just had this senario happen at PDX. 28L/10R was closed. Company pilot was told to hold short for North runways. Said pilot taxied up to South runways and held while switching to Tower. Then with 5 airplanes (I was #3 behind) holding behind our wayward pilot who was where they were supposed to be but on wrong frequency held up literally half the airport while ground tried to reach said pilot on everything but South tower freq for a good 5 - 10 mins.
Click to expand...

Just saw this unfold in Atlanta two weeks ago. A Netjet waiting to cross 26R to go to 26L switched to tower instead of staying on ground and caused some problems.
 
My 2¢:
99% of the airports that want us to switch to tower without stating it have a sign. SAN comes to mind.

FLL, I can remember I preemptively switched, and tower called asking if we were on freq.
ORD, well... never use ORD as an example of standard.
 
milleR said:
The AIM says to stay on ground until ready for departure, but like all things from the FAA actual procedures appear to be consistently inconsistent.


4−3−14. Communications

a. Pilots of departing aircraft should communicate with the control tower on the appropriate ground control/clearance delivery frequency prior to starting engines to receive engine start time, taxi and/or clearance information. Unless otherwise advised by the tower, remain on that frequency during taxiing and runup, then change to local control frequency when ready to request takeoff clearance.

NOTE−

Pilots are encouraged to monitor the local tower frequency as soon as practical consistent with other ATC requirements.

REFERENCE−

AIM, Paragraph 4−1−13 , Automatic Terminal Information Service (ATIS)

b. The tower controller will consider that pilots of turbine−powered aircraft are ready for takeoff when they reach the runway or warm−up block unless advised otherwise.
Click to expand...
AIM says here to switch without being told to switch. As a matter of fact, it suggests to monitor prior to being ready in case they are looking for you on tower before reaching.
gotWXdagain said:
If they want you to make the switch, then they're supposed to tell you to monitor tower.
Click to expand...
See above, did I read that wrong?
 
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