Where to start?

[sr71]

HI

I'm a newly certified CFI (CFII) and am preparing to have my first student. The student has been trying to finish up is Instrument rating, It sounds like he is good with the knowledge test and hours. My Question is were do i start off? I know I need to see where he's at, any pointers on finding his skill level?

Thanks

 

[400A]

If you can, speak with their previous instructor.
Talk with the student about what they believe their strengths and weaknesses are.
Make one thing perfectly clear to the student. The signoff for their checkride is now solely YOUR responsibility, no "my last instructor already did this" crap.

I would spend at least one day on the ground before flying finding out how much they do or do not know.

Make it clear that it may take a few flights to get both of you up to speed on where the student is "ready" wise.


These kinds of students are the hardest, the don't know what they don't know and think they know everything.

Finding their skill level won't happen right away. I would advise against going up and doing every approach and procedure under the sun in the first flight or two. All you will do is get an unreliable snapshot of where they are. You need to see both ends of their performance spectrum and that comes from multiple flights.

Take a look at how the last few flights were done. Did they do all vectors to approaches, low approaches, on the foggles and full missed approaches, what kind of approaches, etc. Whatever the constant was, don't do that initially.

Above all though, make sure the student is learning from you from day one and is having fun. Switching instructors adds cost to their training and you need to do your best to minimize that and ease that "pain" but you cannot sacrifice the quality of your instruction for the sake of quantity of lessons.

 

[shdw]

I don't mean to burst any bubbles here, but taking on a commercial student as a fresh instructor I found to be a daunting task. When I was about 25 hours into my dual given I got my first commercial student. I don't feel I was able to give nearly the insight he deserved.

There are little things that you catch pilots do as you begin to teach that you never thought about. The number of things you catch is literally never ending. They say you will learn more in your first 50 hours of instruction than in your entire training up to that point, I feel that is fairly accurate.

My advice, while it would stink, is to start with private students first. Build at least 100 hours teaching them and then another 100 on instruments before trying to tackle a commercial student. Not to say you cannot do it, but can you do it as well as the average 500+ hour instructor when you are fresh out of the gate? I would suspect not.

If you choose to take the student 400A made some great suggestions. What I would add to that, given your situation, is find out how schools in your area do evaluation flights. If you have to call up some local flight schools, or colleges if you know any, and ask them about what they look for in evaluation flights and why. Quizzing the JC community on this topic may also prove beneficial.

The second thing I would like to mention is ground rules. Come up with your exact expectations for the student to achieve the sign off. Here were mine:

Flight: You must complete every commercial maneuver to PTS with a maximum of one do over in one single flight (may take up to 1.5 hours).

Ground: You must answer my questions to 80 percent accuracy on a two hour oral exam.

I told that to my commercial student day one. I am a firm believer of letting the student know your precise expectations of them for each milestone. For private students, day one I tell them the solo expectations: You have 4 attempts to make 3 safe landings and I will sign you off. Coming up with your personal requirements for each phase of each certificate and letting the student know them gives the student a goal and ensures they know your expectations.

Good luck.

 

[The Gardener]

I don't mean to burst any bubbles here, but taking on a commercial student as a fresh instructor I found to be a daunting task. When I was about 25 hours into my dual given I got my first commercial student. I don't feel I was able to give nearly the insight he deserved.

There are little things that you catch pilots do as you begin to teach that you never thought about. The number of things you catch is literally never ending. They say you will learn more in your first 50 hours of instruction than in your entire training up to that point, I feel that is fairly accurate.

My advice, while it would stink, is to start with private students first. Build at least 100 hours teaching them and then another 100 on instruments before trying to tackle a commercial student. Not to say you cannot do it, but can you do it as well as the average 500+ hour instructor when you are fresh out of the gate? I would suspect not.

If you choose to take the student 400A made some great suggestions. What I would add to that, given your situation, is find out how schools in your area do evaluation flights. If you have to call up some local flight schools, or colleges if you know any, and ask them about what they look for in evaluation flights and why. Quizzing the JC community on this topic may also prove beneficial.

The second thing I would like to mention is ground rules. Come up with your exact expectations for the student to achieve the sign off. Here were mine:

Flight: You must complete every commercial maneuver to PTS with a maximum of one do over in one single flight (may take up to 1.5 hours).

Ground: You must answer my questions to 80 percent accuracy on a two hour oral exam.

I told that to my commercial student day one. I am a firm believer of letting the student know your precise expectations of them for each milestone. For private students, day one I tell them the solo expectations: You have 4 attempts to make 3 safe landings and I will sign you off. Coming up with your personal requirements for each phase of each certificate and letting the student know them gives the student a goal and ensures they know your expectations.

Good luck.

1) The examiners you use allow do overs on checkrides?

2) If the student does 3 safe landings and cracks up the plane on the 4th is he is good to go?

I'm not following your logic.


I don't know about you but I look for PTS skills on all maneuvers before a sign off and 100% safety on ALL landings leading up to solo.

 

[shdw]

1) The examiners you use allow do overs on checkrides?

2) If the student does 3 safe landings and cracks up the plane on the 4th is he is good to go?

I'm not following your logic.

For 1: If everything else is impeccable and they botch a lazy 8 or something, I can live with that.

As for redo's, I have gotten a redo on my commercial multi ride and on my CFI ride. The commercial multi I got a redo on single engine takeoff and on the CFI I got a redo on the stall and steep turn. I can't remember my instrument or private rides to say if I got one then or not. I have also never failed an FAA ride or FAA exam.

If you recognize your error and can explain it I've found the FAA to be quite understanding of a persons nerves. So long as you perform the majority well within PTS and safely.

For 2: No, they can't crack it up period. The 3 in 4 attempts means they are allotted one go around.

 

[SteveC]

...The commercial multi I got a redo on single engine takeoff and...

Single engine takeoff???

 

[Douglas]

I don't mean to burst any bubbles here, but taking on a commercial student as a fresh instructor

I read the op as saying he is teaching an instrument student.

-------

You haven't taken anybody through an instrument rating yet, I bet you will just have to stumble for a bit until you get up to speed...no matter what advice you get.
Though advice given so far (ie talk to the previous instructor) have been great.

 

[shdw]

Single engine takeoff???

Not to an actual takeoff, sorry. I meant when they fail an engine on the rollout. My response wasn't timely enough or complete. I only brought the live engine back about half, enough so I could control the aircraft. Long story short I never fully aborted in practice, as soon as I made the initial reduction on the live engine my CFI would give me both engines back and we would depart. I expected the same from the DE...whoops.

 

[The Gardener]

For 1: If everything else is impeccable and they botch a lazy 8 or something, I can live with that.

As for redo's, I have gotten a redo on my commercial multi ride and on my CFI ride. The commercial multi I got a redo on single engine takeoff and on the CFI I got a redo on the stall and steep turn. I can't remember my instrument or private rides to say if I got one then or not. I have also never failed an FAA ride or FAA exam.

If you recognize your error and can explain it I've found the FAA to be quite understanding of a persons nerves. So long as you perform the majority well within PTS and safely.

For 2: No, they can't crack it up period. The 3 in 4 attempts means they are allotted one go around.

Gotcha. I just didn't quite understand what you meant. I've always taught my students to self evaluate when it is close to the checkride.

Finishing a maneuver it is always;
Well how did you do?

What can you do to make it better?

Examiners don't look for perfection but they certainly hate BSers.

I had a CFI initial doing a check ride with a fed once. He botched his steep turns and the fed says, "vis sure isn't too good. Maybe we should call this one for weather?" I really respected him for that because the vis really was crap that day and they maybe never should have been out.

 

[shdw]

Gotcha.

No worries. To be honest, after thinking about your "examiners allow..," I will likely be changing that. No reason they can't fly one perfect flight for a sign off.

The overall point was to have predefined goals for your students and make them known from day one. IE *talking to a student* "Our next big step is (fill in), to get my approval for this step you must do (fill in)." Keep it clear and concise that way you're both on the same page.