Where the laziest pilots should go

[jrh]

Here's a thought bouncing around in my brain...if you're not after money, and not after flight time, and want the absolute lowest number of days to work per month, which LCC/major/legacy would you try to get on with?

Here's the spot I'm in and maybe some of you can give me advice. 7500 TT, 2500 turbojet PIC from Citations, the rest of my time in various piston airplanes. Training captain and check airman for a smallish but growing 135 operation (about 50-60 pilots). I worked for Cape Air (scheduled 135) and my current operation, but no 121 experience. I currently work 16-17 days/month on average, total compensation of about $140k/year. Probably not going to get significantly more money or time off because the business model does not support it. Through good luck and good planning, I'll probably hit our "financial independence" goals within ten years if I just keep doing what I'm doing.

I live far from any airline bases and don't want to move. Nearest airline service would be Omaha, Nebraska, or Kansas City a couple hours away. Wife and two young children at home that I'd like to spend as much time as possible around.

I never thought I'd be in a spot to consider major or legacy airlines, but here I am, with friends saying they'd help me get in somewhere if I want it.

Do I want it? I don't know. I don't care about what I fly, or if I'm in charge, or domestic/international. At this point I'm focusing on trading as little time as possible for at least the same pay I'm currently making, in the near term rather than at the end of my life when both me and my kids are old.

So here's the priorities--over the next ten years, make $1.5 million while giving up no more than 14 days/month of time. For example, work 10 or 12 days per month and waste 2-4 days to commuting, I'm still giving up less of my life than I currently give up to work.

Is this possible at any airline? How little can a pilot work at an airline and still remain employed?

 

[Flyinthrew]

I think your question might be a mix of who lets you just straight drop as much of your schedule as possible and who gives great vacation time.

You’re talking an average of $150k per year. That’s doable, even with sorry first year pay, and no backbreaking overtime. If the completely bat • crazy story arc of 121 allows you to upgrade in that time, then it’s not even a question. And that’s just wages. 401k direct contribution is on top of that with no contribution from yourself.


SJI will let you drop to zero, no questions asked. I’ve worked 11-14 days a month for the past year with a lot of those days being very late reports, and some early releases. I could have worked way less, and I will in the future, but year one pay requires me to be productive. It is no secret that we have been in a spot that doesn’t allow much dropping, but there are still plenty of contractual ways to get rid of your flying even in the current, tight environment. As for vacation, apparently we’re 7th in the industry, but I think that’s going to change with the next contract. We run 6 main line flights a day to MCI from ATL, and with even just a little seniority ATL trips are quite commutable.

Good luck!

 

[knot4u]

Given your description of your current situation I'd say stay put. You said $1.5M/10 years is the goal but you're already at $1.4M. You also said you don't want to move, it seems like your only request is 4 more days off per month. You seem flippant about it, as if it's being offered to you like a choice of different caviar. If what you say is true take the job at the major, that's the answer you want to hear. You posted hoping others would back up your decision so you can feel good about yourself. Unless your wife and kids really love where you live now. It's called aviation induced divorce syndrome for a reason. Good Luck!

 

[jrh]

Given your description of your current situation I'd say stay put. You said $1.5M/10 years is the goal but you're already at $1.4M. You also said you don't want to move, it seems like your only request is 4 more days off per month. You seem flippant about it, as if it's being offered to you like a choice of different caviar. If what you say is true take the job at the major, that's the answer you want to hear. You posted hoping others would back up your decision so you can feel good about yourself. Unless your wife and kids really love where you live now. It's called aviation induced divorce syndrome for a reason. Good Luck!

I might not have communicated my thoughts clearly in my original post.

With regard to pay, I was trying to stress I'm not after more money, I'm after more time. My current pay is fine. I just don't want a pay cut.

I don't know what came off as flippant. Maybe my tone came off wrong through writing. I'm trying to keep my swirling thoughts concise.

I don't want to hear any answer in particular. That's why I posted my question. I'm looking for input from people who know the ins and outs of the system. I've never worked at a large 121 operator, I don't know the gritty details of what's common and what's possible. I'd never seriously considered a major airline until the hiring insanity of this year because I didn't think anyone would take me seriously without 121 time. I don't have any apps in, I haven't done any interviews. I haven't made any decisions. I hear great things about some of these places. I'm trying to figure out if they're only great for other people or actually great for me too.

Not sure why AIDS got brought up. My wife is not pushing me one way or the other. Having a great family life is my top priority and I'd rather quit flying than have it split up our family.

Here's a more distilled version of what I'm asking...Can a junior pilot at any carrier make about $1.5M over their first ten years while only working about 10 days/month? How about 8 days/month? Is this a realistic possibility, or is this simply not done? How little could I work without taking a pay cut from my current situation?

 

[BobDDuck]

Here's a more distilled version of what I'm asking...Can a junior pilot at any carrier make about $1.5M over their first ten years while only working about 10 days/month? How about 8 days/month? Is this a realistic possibility, or is this simply not done? How little could I work without taking a pay cut from my current situation?

While on reserve you aren't going to have a ton of say in how many days off you get, so expect a 15 to 18 day commitment every month (depending on the contact) until you can get off reserve. Some properties have long call, which will allow you to be at home for some of those days, but there is no guarantee of that. If you are a few hours from MCI or similar, you'd be hard pressed to drive to the airport and then catch a flight to base during several time periods each day, which would make long call difficult anyway. Also, you'll probably blow a day on at least one side of any trip commuting in to or home from work.

Once you get a schedule, you'll probably be able to (with efficient narrow body trips) be able to get down to 15 or 16 days off and 80 hours of credit. Most companies let you drop down to fewer hours (and more days off), but that is staffing dependent. Over the past few years, everybody has been fat and you can drop anything you want. I wouldn't expect that to continue. Also, if you drop, you don't get paid for that time, so if you drop down to just two four day trips, you may end up with only 40 or so hours for the month.

So to answer your distilled question... I think you are going to be very hard pressed to get a schedule with less than 16 days of work while on reserve. Once off reserve, if the staffing is good, you can probably drop down to fewer trips and more days off, but the pay component will suffer. As a captain at $300/hr you probably get hit your target of $1.5 mil in 10 years while only working 2 trips a month (8 days), but that $300 is near the top end of captain pay, which you wouldn't be seeing (even if you upgraded) within the 10 year time frame. Once off reserve, even as a second year pilot, you can probably replace your $150,000 a year with 12 to 15 days of work. As your pay goes up, you'll be able to shave days off (if you are able to drop trips), but it's not linear or anything like that.

 

[Oxman]

I think your question might be a mix of who lets you just straight drop as much of your schedule as possible and who gives great vacation time.

You’re talking an average of $150k per year. That’s doable, even with sorry first year pay, and no backbreaking overtime. If the completely bat • crazy story arc of 121 allows you to upgrade in that time, then it’s not even a question. And that’s just wages. 401k direct contribution is on top of that with no contribution from yourself.


SJI will let you drop to zero, no questions asked. I’ve worked 11-14 days a month for the past year with a lot of those days being very late reports, and some early releases. I could have worked way less, and I will in the future, but year one pay requires me to be productive. It is no secret that we have been in a spot that doesn’t allow much dropping, but there are still plenty of contractual ways to get rid of your flying even in the current, tight environment. As for vacation, apparently we’re 7th in the industry, but I think that’s going to change with the next contract. We run 6 main line flights a day to MCI from ATL, and with even just a little seniority ATL trips are quite commutable.

Good luck!

SJI ?

 

[EIR]

SJI ?

Delta

 

[Boris Badenov]

It's not a serious contender if you can get on at sji but Omni sounds up your alley. I averaged maybe ten days of actual work per month, with a lot of sitting around at home on long call reserve (24 hour callout I think it was...long enough that you could do whatever you wanted to do). And when I did work it was pretty lazy. Fly somewhere, sit a few days, fly somewhere, sir a few days, fly home. Also, home based, so no commuting stress. You could make 150k fairly easily, and after upgrade quite a bit more.

Of course there's no retirement to speak of (which sounds like it may not be a problem for you), and there is no guarantee that the schedules will stay that way or that they'll even be around in ten years (which should be a problem for anyone).

 

[EIR]

Like Boris said, Omni is a good contender. You'll barely work and make decent money. I averaged 10 days a month, maintained all my hotel status' and hit top tier with UAL and DAL. It wasn't a bad gig at all. Also, $150k/year is pretty easy to hit as an FO.

 

[GypsyPilot]

As a line holder FO at FedEx, last year I took two months off without even using vacation. My pay for the year was considerably more than $150k.

 

[bike21]

Widebody at almost any legacy/cargo is what you seek. Much recommend.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

A buddy from my class figured out a way to “pump and dump” his schedule at Alaska. He was working probably 10 or so days a month. Making a lot less but his wife works.

Recently things changed staffing wise and he can’t do that anymore so now he’s working a full time schedule and has no desire to. In short what I’m trying to say is your minimal work job could change to all hands on deck pretty fast.

All management wants you to be productive. They will figure out a way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kingairer]

While on reserve you aren't going to have a ton of say in how many days off you get, so expect a 15 to 18 day commitment every month (depending on the contact) until you can get off reserve. Some properties have long call, which will allow you to be at home for some of those days, but there is no guarantee of that. If you are a few hours from MCI or similar, you'd be hard pressed to drive to the airport and then catch a flight to base during several time periods each day, which would make long call difficult anyway. Also, you'll probably blow a day on at least one side of any trip commuting in to or home from work.

Once you get a schedule, you'll probably be able to (with efficient narrow body trips) be able to get down to 15 or 16 days off and 80 hours of credit. Most companies let you drop down to fewer hours (and more days off), but that is staffing dependent. Over the past few years, everybody has been fat and you can drop anything you want. I wouldn't expect that to continue. Also, if you drop, you don't get paid for that time, so if you drop down to just two four day trips, you may end up with only 40 or so hours for the month.

So to answer your distilled question... I think you are going to be very hard pressed to get a schedule with less than 16 days of work while on reserve. Once off reserve, if the staffing is good, you can probably drop down to fewer trips and more days off, but the pay component will suffer. As a captain at $300/hr you probably get hit your target of $1.5 mil in 10 years while only working 2 trips a month (8 days), but that $300 is near the top end of captain pay, which you wouldn't be seeing (even if you upgraded) within the 10 year time frame. Once off reserve, even as a second year pilot, you can probably replace your $150,000 a year with 12 to 15 days of work. As your pay goes up, you'll be able to shave days off (if you are able to drop trips), but it's not linear or anything like that.

Best answer.

 

[Kingairer]

Here's a thought bouncing around in my brain...if you're not after money, and not after flight time, and want the absolute lowest number of days to work per month, which LCC/major/legacy would you try to get on with?

Here's the spot I'm in and maybe some of you can give me advice. 7500 TT, 2500 turbojet PIC from Citations, the rest of my time in various piston airplanes. Training captain and check airman for a smallish but growing 135 operation (about 50-60 pilots). I worked for Cape Air (scheduled 135) and my current operation, but no 121 experience. I currently work 16-17 days/month on average, total compensation of about $140k/year. Probably not going to get significantly more money or time off because the business model does not support it. Through good luck and good planning, I'll probably hit our "financial independence" goals within ten years if I just keep doing what I'm doing.

I live far from any airline bases and don't want to move. Nearest airline service would be Omaha, Nebraska, or Kansas City a couple hours away. Wife and two young children at home that I'd like to spend as much time as possible around.

I never thought I'd be in a spot to consider major or legacy airlines, but here I am, with friends saying they'd help me get in somewhere if I want it.

Do I want it? I don't know. I don't care about what I fly, or if I'm in charge, or domestic/international. At this point I'm focusing on trading as little time as possible for at least the same pay I'm currently making, in the near term rather than at the end of my life when both me and my kids are old.

So here's the priorities--over the next ten years, make $1.5 million while giving up no more than 14 days/month of time. For example, work 10 or 12 days per month and waste 2-4 days to commuting, I'm still giving up less of my life than I currently give up to work.

Is this possible at any airline? How little can a pilot work at an airline and still remain employed?

As of now, there is no time obligation at AA, so in theory you could drop to 0. You’re going to eat into your days off as long as you chose to do the difficult commute. If you can find peace loving elsewhere, I’d suggest that. Pretty much everyone is seeking what you are, so as long as you’re junior, it will be difficult to get more time off. In no way would I go to an ACMI carrier if your goal is to be home more and see your kids. If you’re going to make the jump, the time is now and not tomorrow.

 

[DE727UPS]

I heard Atlas isn't doing Amazon anymore but I would think some of the contractors might do week on, week off, domestic And if they had the same model as Brown, where you commercial in and out, you might work your way into a schedule where you get paid to drive to work and then only fly 10 days a month. You'd be dealing with first year and F/O pay that likely is subpar but with a seniority list that moves quickly you might be able to work your way into a commute that's pretty easy. Maybe some ATI or DHL guys on here? Not sure who is doing Amazon anymore with 76's.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Commuting, especially 2 legs, is really bad. I'd prioritize a place where you can get to work reasonably on 1 leg from Omaha.

 

[Wardogg]

Commuting, especially 2 legs, is really bad. I'd prioritize a place where you can get to work reasonably on 1 leg from Omaha.

2 leg commute with a 2 hr drive home? The stuff of nightmares.

 

[skypilot6]

Also it's worth mentioning that just about every airline is either in contract negotiations, or will be soon. What is true today may not be in the coming months.

 

[fholbert]

Here, you're home every night, on auto pilot all the time and rarely crash.

 

[swakid8]

I heard Atlas isn't doing Amazon anymore but I would think some of the contractors might do week on, week off, domestic And if they had the same model as Brown, where you commercial in and out, you might work your way into a schedule where you get paid to drive to work and then only fly 10 days a month. You'd be dealing with first year and F/O pay that likely is subpar but with a seniority list that moves quickly you might be able to work your way into a commute that's pretty easy. Maybe some ATI or DHL guys on here? Not sure who is doing Amazon anymore with 76's.

You have heard incorrect. Atlas Amazon flying is alive and well. Matter fact, they just extended their agreement recently. Atlas has 60-day split lines with like week on and week type of deal. We have Fixed Pattern Lines of 17on/13 to 14 off for the whole year, which is great for family. I have theFixed Pattern Line this year, it’s been a awesome deal. My wife loves it as well. That and Gateway travel for commuting are items that I will dread giving up leaving for a legency though.