Where Are The Loadmasters On This Board?

SickBird

New Member
I was wondering if there are still any loadmasters on this board since I am thinking about cross training into that field. I know there used to be a couple, and a search of all forum threads yielded nothing.

Also does anyone know the rough amount of a typical salary a loadmaster makes working for a company like Fed Ex or UPS if someone decided to take it to the civillian world?

Thanks!
 
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What's the minimun years of service in ANG or reserves for a loadmaster?

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Brian- 4 years.


Sickbird- I have some ANG loadmaster experience(not very much). Hopefully, someone else can jump in. I dont beleive there are many civ loadmastwers out there anymore, except for civilian 130's out there flying. I am pretty sure Fedex UPS no longer used loadmasters, not sure if they ever did. Maybe they just have a different name, if so they do not fly with the crew as far as I know
 
Thanks, every little bit helps. I can not find hardly anything on the net as far as a forum for AF loadmasters like every other career field has. I was mainly wondering if you can insure you get on C-5's or C-17's based on tech school test scores or if it is completely random. I would much much much rather be on a biggun. Also do you know if your LM friends enjoy their job?

Anyone know anything about the boom operators as well? My career field is so overmanned they are letting poeple cross train out early into certain career fields and these were the two that interested me.

Thanks!
 
Sick,

Have you thought about looking into being an engineer? out of all the Enlisted Aviator career fields, that is most likely the one that would help you most in the civilian world.

It is pretty much a crap shoot as far as selection. I was in the Guard, so I already knew where I was going. The majority went to herks. Believe it or not, the 130 seems to demand more from its loadmasters then any other platform.

Boomers have a high deployment rate. As far as the actual job, it really doesn’t seem to bad. I have flown with them a few times, and the boomer had nothing to say bad about the job, except the deployment rate. Most of their flights are quick(4-6 hours). with the new Pacer Krag systems, it is only the pilots, and the boomer. Again, crap shoot in training, with the odds you are probably going to be in a 135.

You also have some options in the spec Ops field such as Gunners, both helo, and the bullet loaders on gun ships. You also have 4 different career field to choose from on AWACS. Any more questions just hit me up. it has been a couple years, but I spent a lot of time around enlisted aviation
 
Well I appreciate the feedback, that answered most of my questions, mainly being how they determine what a/c you are assigned too. I am pretty picky and only want to be on C-5's or C-17's.

Since I am actually planning on entering the medical sector when I get out if I am not doing well with college i.e. commisioning. I am not completely relying on my next AF job to support me civillian side like an engineer would. Sooo, I think I will probably look more into boom operator as I enjoy (well, don't mind) deploying to an extent.

Thanks!
 
Sickbird,

Most guys are in the sandbox, as for myself, i'm a former active duty C-130 Load. Now i'm a contractor here close to the sand box as a Load Planner.

Check out the Professional Loadmaster Association website - www.loadmasters.com and go to the message board there.

as far as civilian loadmasters go, most of the major cargo lines, Polar/Atlas/Martinair/ATI, etc have some flying loads, but the positions are hard to come buy, Martinair has an opening now I belive.
Most loads after getting out drift to different things, I know a few that are ailine dispatchers, some are doing Load Planning like myself.
If you have any other questions just give me a shout.

Praise The Load!!

Kevin
K2, Uzbekistan
 
Sweet, thanks for all the replies, very useful information. Herky, while in Kuwait a couple times I dealt with some of the load planners working for KBR. I don't know if that is who you are working for, but those guys were pretty happy with the pay over there. I also have a friend playing with the EC-130's over at K2. He says it is pretty damn cold! Good luck over there and thanks for the replies everybody-
 
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Arent boom operators also the loadmasters of the aircraft they are on?

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On the KC10 when you carry cargo a second boom operator is on the crew. All of them are qualified to do weight/balance/cargo loading and refueling.

Lot of cooridnation with the flight engineer on where to put the fuel when cargo is carried as floor loading and cargo weight distrubtion affects where the fuel ends up. Both for takeoff and inflight. Toss in an inflight refueling and it get's pretty tricky.
 
Do you know how much longer they intend to use the KC-135's? Or are they still having trouble with the 767 tanker lease?
 
Sickbird,

KC-135's like the E Model C-130's will be around for a bit longer, the 767 deal has hit some snags, so will be a bit before that deal is approached again.

As far as you wanting "big" planes, I have no time on the heavies...but i do know guys that flew on them before or after being on C-130's.
The C-17 is more in line with what they knew on C-130's IE: Tactical type flying, airdrop, nvg ops, low level, plus they only fly with 1 or 2 loads, therefore you get to be the boss...you are who the aircraft commander comes to with problems.

The C-5 types...well they are a different breed. you have maybe 4-8 loadmasters on a crew, they are strat airlifters, fly the stuff in...break/crew rest and leave out again. they do get some good tdy's, but i loved the tight crew that came with flying on C-130's you were part of the team.

If i had it to do over again, i'd still do C-130's especially special ops
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. but the C-17 wouldn't be a bad ride either.

BTW, what are you cross training out of?

And yes I do work for KBR, and it is Darn cold in Uzbekistan now, lol Ask your buddy if he likes all the girls with gold teeth here
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.

PTL

Kevin
K2, Uzbekistan
 
They are going to be AROUND for a LOONG time. They are just now finishing all the R models. They really are a great airplane to fly on(R models) you can tell a huge difference with the new CF56 engines.
 
I am currently a 3C051 (Comm Ops). It sure is nice to have some good options i.e. fly on a/c or get out with not much of a problem due to such high overmanning in my AFSC. But I do have until April 22nd before I can put my cross train paperwork in so I have some time to decide between the 3 options.

The biggest reason why I would want to be on a C-17 or 5 as a Loadmaster over a 130 is because I currently work in a 130 squadron and would like to work with another type of a/c.
 
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They are going to be AROUND for a LOONG time. They are just now finishing all the R models. They really are a great airplane to fly on(R models) you can tell a huge difference with the new CF56 engines.

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The E model 135s are on their way out. At Phoenix ANG, for example, of their 8 E-models, all but one was grounded for engine pylon cracks and cleared for a one-time flight to the boneyard. They've since in the past couple of months got a couple of R-models in and are slowly coming back into business.

Interesting tidbit........something you young whippersnappers never got to experience.........the last A-model 135 was recently retired from Edwards. The A-models had the old P&W J57-P59W water injected straight-turbojets. None of this pansy-ass turbofan. What goes in, comes out the ass end as thrust. When they would take the runway, they'd run them up and start the water, which would make heavy black smoke all over the place on their takeoff roll, and following takeoff, you could track their flightpath for the next 15-20 miles or so from the residual heavy smoke. Cool stuff. Since all 135s were at one time fitted with the J57, even today on the R-models, if you go into the right or left MLG well and look towards the fuselage on the inside of the well, you can see where the old piping is now capped-off for the old water tank, which is still installed in the fuselage in-between the MLG wells.

Another cool thing with older straight-turbojet engines was watching F-106 and F-100 aircraft when they'd take the runway and run it up. Their transition to afterburner wasn't smooth like it is today, and they'd have what was called a "hard light", basically a small pause from military power, a slight popping noise and silence, then a thunderous BOOM as the AB lit and a huge fireball came out the ass end of the aircraft. Too cool.

Speaking of old stuff, just as cool was when I remember back to Phoenix ANG having KC-97s. 4 R-4360 radial engines, 28 cylinders arrayed in 4 rows. THAT is some power! I remember a number of the KC-97s would come back with one off and feathered. Powerful, but touchy engines. Last one went out of USAF ANG service in 1976/77. Up until about 1995 or so, there was an ex-Missouri ANG one that was based at KTUS and would fly fish and stuff down to Mexico.....company called Aerochago. And up until 2 years ago, there was one ex-USAF KC-97 operated by Hawkins and Powers aviation that flew a forest firefighting airtanker contract up in Alaska. It's N-number was 1365N....easy to remember since my dad's 182 is registered 1365M

ROFCIBC, know any KC-97 guys back in your day?
 
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The C-17 is more in line with what they knew on C-130's IE: Tactical type flying, airdrop, nvg ops, low level, plus they only fly with 1 or 2 loads, therefore you get to be the boss...you are who the aircraft commander comes to with problems.

The C-5 types...well they are a different breed. you have maybe 4-8 loadmasters on a crew, they are strat airlifters, fly the stuff in...break/crew rest and leave out again. they do get some good tdy's, but i loved the tight crew that came with flying on C-130's you were part of the team.

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Looking from the "customer" point of view I didn't think much of the C-5 crews. They loved their "crew day" duty time, and often came into conflict with our "nobody goes home till the jobs done" work ethic. Loading took forever and it seamed like every time they landed something new was broken. Twice we had to make new lines or wire bundles to fix "their" airplane. That included the time they started an electrical fire with all our stuff onboard!
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We came back from one trip, and the crew walked away from the bird without even trying to unload it. This is after a 8 hr flight where most of the loads were sleeping.
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It took three hrs to find a crew to kneel the bird and help us offload. A couple of our guys threatned to start the APU and kneel it ourselves. That would have made the AF •! a brick!


The one trip I flew on a C-17 the loadmasters were a real class act. Bent over backwards to accomidate us and had us loaded up in no time flat. Despite the fact that this was the first time we had ever loaded our VH-3 in a C-17.
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On the trip back the pilots landed at Quantico instead of Andrews so we could unload directly into our own hangers. Despite the fact that our runway was only 4,000 ft long and they only had two thrust reversers, add in the lousy weather and we were impressed.
 
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ROFCIBC, know any KC-97 guys back in your day?

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Lot's of them. I started flying KC135s in 1967 and there were still KC97s being used. In the mid 70s the Guard units that had them converted to KC135s.

My first aircraft commander, a guy by the name of Joe Tucker had just converted from KC97s to 135s in 1968. Last week I ran into the first crew navigator, who I hadn't seen since 1968. He too had just converted from the KC97. Had a pilot training buddy, Jim McGuirk who flew them in the Ohio ANG out of Lockbourne AFB, later Rickenbacker in Columbus.

Barksdale still had a KC97 they used to haul folks around. Had the boom removed. I remember flying up to Little Rock AFB for my first recurrent altitude chamber on it back in 1969.

You mentioned the water system of the KC135.

The whole idea was that the extra thrust of the water augmentation was going to let you increase your gross weight to a point where even if you lost and engine at V1, you could takeoff, and accelerate to get the flaps up before the water quit. And I mean they had this planned to the second! BOOM! engine goes at V1, rotate, liftoff, gear up, climb to acceleration altitude, (might be as low as 180 feet AGL), struggle to flap retract speed, retract them, and just as they reach zero degrees, POW! the water runs out.

Now think about this. Here you are, on three engines, maybe 250,000 pounds, 180 feet above the ground, at flaps up speed, maybe 20 knots above V2 speed! Is aviation great or what? But remember this was a theoretical, designed by some slide rule (back then) dork (now a computer geek) who never flew and was sitting at a desk with a ground speed of zero! Yeah, uh huh!

When they first built them it was a left/right system. That is there were two electric boost pumps (the mother of all boost pumps!) in the water tank, one forward, one aft. Forward one fed the left side engines, aft one the right side. As you got down to the end of the water (2 minutes, 5280 pounds) the acceleration made the remaining water go to the back of the tank, hence the front pump ran dry first and the water ran out on the left engines first.

Made the airplane yaw left. Just about the time you made a correction, WHAM! the other side ran out. Called the “Eyaaahhhhaaaaa!” maneuver! Sometime in the 70s they redid the plumbing so the two electric boost pumps were and inboard/outboard system.

Funny thing about those electric pumps. They used nearly all the available electrical power the three engine driven generators could make. If you lost a generator, you lost water! Bummer. Also you couldn't turn on the air conditioning pack (only had one) until after the water ran out. Made for some miserably hot takeoffs!

When you advanced the throttles each engine had a air driven (bleed air) pump that really moved the water. Face it 670 gallons in two minutes is MOVING water. About 80% was tossed into the front of the engine and the remaining 20% went into the burner cans. Whole idea was to make the air more dense (wet air is that way) hence you could stuff more fuel in and get more power. The cooling effect of the water was a secondary, albeit minor part.

All in all it was a very reliable system. Never lost water on a single engine in 14 years of flying the water wagon. Once the water "kicked in" it was a good system.

After takeoff you hit a drain valve to completely empty the tank so it wouldn't freeze at altitude. This created a “gotcha” that more than one poor copilot got bit with. As you rolled out for takeoff the copilot started the pumps, using a switch on a panel just in front of his left knee. Watched the two boost pump lights go out, then checked the generator loads. The “gotcha” was that the dump switch was about four inches to the right of the “start” switch. Once the dump valve opened, it could only be closed on the ground through and external panel below the tank. I’ve seen a few takeoffs where the plane was dumping water on the takeoff roll! You still had water for the engines, just not the full two minutes as you were dumping some of it as you took off! The decision to press or abort all depended on just how heavy you were. If you were maxed out…you aborted as the loss of the full two minutes of water, in the event of an engine failure was bad juju! Really BAD juju! If you were not that heavy, or heading of on a weekend cross country to sunny Florida, you pressed on as the copilot was buying the beers when you got there!

When it got down to 40F you had to heat the water. Had major league electric water heaters in the tank, that used external power or the on board APU to work. Had to get it up to 100F. If the temp got down to 20F or less, you dumped water as the engines produced the same thrust as when you used water.

I still have a patch that says,

"KC135...Built When Man Thought He Could Burn Water!"

And another,

“KC135…Turns Fuel and Water Into Noise and Smoke!”

Interesting side light. Although it looked dirty and nasty a water takeoff actually left less particulate matter in the air. Due to the higher density of the smoke the particulate matter fell out of the air much more than the smoke of a "dry" takeoff. Didn't help the poor saps under the takeoff path much, but did give the endangered species birds better air to breathe!

So much for Water Wagon 101! Last time you'll ever ask about that!
 
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