Stomp16
You mean Shennanigans?!?!
People are bombing our basic instrument sim check during interviews. It's amazing how some people have managed to keep them selves alive up to this point
Where are the airline pilots going to come from?
- Thread starter USMCmech
- Start date
People are bombing our basic instrument sim check during interviews. It's amazing how some people have managed to keep them selves alive up to this point
jynxyjoe
Queso King
So you're saying you have a job for me?
Let's face it though, the place you work and the place I work are completely different tiers. I'm at an entry level job (although Mesaba has been good to me), and moving up and on right now is a little difficult unless your a CP son (which apparently wasn't good enough for fedex even).
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I'd fight for ya that's for sure.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
5k, 1200tpic (in a turboprop), and a willingness to smile and load bags for whatever exec you got that day.
Edit: I'll buy you coffee any leg you want too.
I can polish up your car. Shine shoes. Lick boots, whatever!
5k, 1200tpic (in a turboprop), and a willingness to smile and load bags for whatever exec you got that day.
Edit: I'll buy you coffee any leg you want too.
I can polish up your car. Shine shoes. Lick boots, whatever!
Hey Zap, are you willing to sublet his services? I could use a shoe shine and I need some weed killer in the backyard, it looks like.
CzechAirman
Well-Known Member
So you're saying you have a job for me?
Let's face it though, the place you work and the place I work are completely different tiers. I'm at an entry level job (although Mesaba has been good to me), and moving up and on right now is a little difficult unless your a CP son (which apparently wasn't good enough for fedex even).
Need deets please!
My .02 pesos on this is a little more involved than just the airline industry.
1. The standards that are set for ANY student in anything today are too low. When things get tough for these students, the standards aren't held, the standard is dropped. What is the lesson? In corporate world, it's status quo. In aviation, it is potentially fatal. Or maybe disqualifying.
2. The "best" flight school have had to reduce their standards due to a massive influx of Asian, and other non-English speaking countries. If the "best" have done it, what has happened to the marginal flight schools? I'm in flight school now, and am watching kids get shoved through the pipe in order to maintain numbers. Some of these kids are at 30+ hours and are still not able to land a C172. Yet, somehow, they leave to go fly for Asiana, Korean, or China Southern with an MEII. These kids are getting selected to fly 767's after a short ground school/training/type rating.
3. For me, I'm not sure that I'd want to take $18,000. I'll stick to being a CFI that pays competitively. I think that a competitive CFI wage is protecting these qualified candidates from the shenanigans of the regionals. CFI's getting paid $25-$35 an hour, with flexible schedules, control of their time, and an endless supply of Asian pilots to train have no incentive to leave for the world of $18k a year.
1. The standards that are set for ANY student in anything today are too low. When things get tough for these students, the standards aren't held, the standard is dropped. What is the lesson? In corporate world, it's status quo. In aviation, it is potentially fatal. Or maybe disqualifying.
2. The "best" flight school have had to reduce their standards due to a massive influx of Asian, and other non-English speaking countries. If the "best" have done it, what has happened to the marginal flight schools? I'm in flight school now, and am watching kids get shoved through the pipe in order to maintain numbers. Some of these kids are at 30+ hours and are still not able to land a C172. Yet, somehow, they leave to go fly for Asiana, Korean, or China Southern with an MEII. These kids are getting selected to fly 767's after a short ground school/training/type rating.
3. For me, I'm not sure that I'd want to take $18,000. I'll stick to being a CFI that pays competitively. I think that a competitive CFI wage is protecting these qualified candidates from the shenanigans of the regionals. CFI's getting paid $25-$35 an hour, with flexible schedules, control of their time, and an endless supply of Asian pilots to train have no incentive to leave for the world of $18k a year.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Must be nice. I'm a X FO at one of the better 135s. Home 12 days a month 'bout the same pay.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Nope, not always.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
But jets man, jets!
Aviator_Bakeek
Well-Known Member
I would consider the fact that many airline CEO's today are not pilots, they are business men/women. Their job is to run a big company and compensate themselves and their upper level supporters for "working hard". Corporate greed...it is disgusting.
I work for Great Lakes. Rumor around here has it that someone in upper management with operational control has been quoted saying "FO's should be lucky that they are paid as well as they are and that its not a internship" (not verbatim and definitely hearsay). However, it would not surprise me if it were true. Don't get me wrong, I love flying here because the flying and experience itself is amazing. I don't even consider my pay and benefits "compensation" anymore:...its the bare minimum legal requirement for the company to consider me as an employee and use/abuse me to their liking.
I came here as a way to get some quality experience, experience I would not get anywhere else with the experience I had. As soon as a better position opens up that works for my career and family I will be leaving. That was my intent when I started here and its been reinforced time and time again from poor "compensation", work rules, and as Doug said "being treated like a kindergartener". I knew that going in, but this was a stepping stone...the only stone to step on for me at the time.
I look forward to the day when the industry changes. I may be a pessimist on the subject, but the leadership of these companies is the problem and until that changes I do not believe there will be any significant changes for us pilots.
I work for Great Lakes. Rumor around here has it that someone in upper management with operational control has been quoted saying "FO's should be lucky that they are paid as well as they are and that its not a internship" (not verbatim and definitely hearsay). However, it would not surprise me if it were true. Don't get me wrong, I love flying here because the flying and experience itself is amazing. I don't even consider my pay and benefits "compensation" anymore:...its the bare minimum legal requirement for the company to consider me as an employee and use/abuse me to their liking.
I came here as a way to get some quality experience, experience I would not get anywhere else with the experience I had. As soon as a better position opens up that works for my career and family I will be leaving. That was my intent when I started here and its been reinforced time and time again from poor "compensation", work rules, and as Doug said "being treated like a kindergartener". I knew that going in, but this was a stepping stone...the only stone to step on for me at the time.
I look forward to the day when the industry changes. I may be a pessimist on the subject, but the leadership of these companies is the problem and until that changes I do not believe there will be any significant changes for us pilots.
squeezemylemon
Well-Known Member
I paid 20000$ for ifr,cpl,multi in 1995, how much it cost now?
Salary was the same as now.. Not surprising why people want quit for part 135 or teaching.
I love to fly with beginners.
sent from tapatalk
Salary was the same as now.. Not surprising why people want quit for part 135 or teaching.
I love to fly with beginners.
sent from tapatalk
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I can't speak for Doug's employer of course, having never worked there. But at EVERY flying job I've ever had pilots were treated like kindergarteners. (and not Montessori either where kids do things for themselves!)
I remember meeting one of the Chief Pilots at Comair just prior to beginning IOE. About half the class were furloughed from other airlines... USAir, DHL, United...
The chief pilot told us. "I expect that you will land on the centerline and in the touchdown zone every time. A smooth landing is not a good landing."
Seriously? Did the chief pilot just tell us we were supposed to land on the centerline? Who does he think we are?? Student pilots at their first post-Seminole flying job??
I was deeply offended. Then we left his office and I saw someone walk by in a big, fuzzy mascot suit... it was "R. Jay"... our mascot, on his way to entertain some kids. Suddenly it felt like we were working at McDonalds.
- At another job they required the Captain to fill out a form on my performance every time I flew a trip for the first year.
- At another they required a doctor's note every time I called in sick. (At my current job they actually SEND you to the doctor if you call in sick. Every time.)
- You are randomly tested for alcohol and drugs (usually AFTER a trip... wouldn't want to impact the schedule). Someone has to meet you at your airplane, take you to a little room, and wait for you to pee.
- You are not permitted to eat the same thing as your coworkers.
I submit that the only thing that matters in this profession is compensation, and adequate time at home to enjoy it with your family. At the end of the day we're quite lucky aren't we? How many people get to do exactly what they wanted to do when they were little kids?? Nobody grows up saying "I want to be an accountant!" That doesn't mean that it is right when an employer exploits our expertise. Or when they devalue our professional contribution. (I'd love for someone to take the quote from that Great Lakes executive to the newsmedia... wonder how the public might react to having an "intern" flying their airplane?)
I have said time and again both here and in the "real world" that First Officer is not an apprenticeship. It is a valued and essential member of a flight crew. Sure the FO will learn things from the Captain. But if you don't think that Captains are learning things from their FOs... you probably need to take a hard look in the mirror. Don't devalue yourself. It takes a crew to fly your airplane... not a flight instructor and his student.
When you make career choices. Try to make them based on compensation, work rules, and quality of life (including domicile). After the first few hundred hours the view out the window is the same from every airplane (even those you need a shoehorn to get into the cockpit of). So why subject yourself to mistreatment just to fly some desirable metal?
Ask yourself this: Do I live to work? or do I work to live?
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Same • different sandwich is what I always say.
Base-dependent where I work.
Some bases they'll throw you a box of tools and say, "Call us when/if you need anything". Other bases, you get "Nanny'ed" at the urinal and reminded to wear your hat.
They largely leave us alone for the most part, especially in NYC. You will not see or hear from management and if you get in a bind, they'll actually work with you.
Some captains, however... Ooooh I'd better not start.
But I've been to the "Big brown desk" (we're talking chief pilot, alpa reps, full cockpit crew,FAA CMO/POI,etc) a few years ago and it was an overall pleasant experience. Which is weird to say, but it was.
Some bases they'll throw you a box of tools and say, "Call us when/if you need anything". Other bases, you get "Nanny'ed" at the urinal and reminded to wear your hat.
They largely leave us alone for the most part, especially in NYC. You will not see or hear from management and if you get in a bind, they'll actually work with you.
Some captains, however... Ooooh I'd better not start.
But I've been to the "Big brown desk" (we're talking chief pilot, alpa reps, full cockpit crew,FAA CMO/POI,etc) a few years ago and it was an overall pleasant experience. Which is weird to say, but it was.
Story to be told over beer.
And yes, years later some LCA will tell me my story, get it wrong and swear that I'm wrong because of what they heard at the LCA meeting and then want to argue with me even after I say, "Hey, I was 'one of the three crew members, homebrew..."
And yes, years later some LCA will tell me my story, get it wrong and swear that I'm wrong because of what they heard at the LCA meeting and then want to argue with me even after I say, "Hey, I was 'one of the three crew members, homebrew..."