When to call in sick?

ATN_Pilot said:
Actually, it does. I've represented numerous pilots who were terminated for lying to the company. Arbitrators generally don't have sympathy unless it was something meaningless.
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Look. I'm not talking about your experience with terminations due to lying.

We are just going to have to disagree on this issue. I understand your position, but it just isn't realistic. There's a reason almost all airlines have some sort of policy.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yes, of course we are. No other path to take when you refuse to listen to facts. :rolleyes:
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I could say the same to you. You don't listen to any of us from Blue who tell you (repeatedly) that we had a problem. The company didn't want a sick policy, the pilots made one necessary.

Companies get the unions they deserve. Pilots get the sick policies they deserve.

Btw, I can do the really jerky smug face too. [emoji57]
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I could say the same to you. You don't listen to any of us from Blue who tell you (repeatedly) that we had a problem.
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No one has disagreed that you had a problem. We have no way of knowing that, nor is it the issue. The issue is the "solution" that they chose. And a sick policy is not an acceptable solution. The solution is to discipline people who lie about being sick. Period. End of story.

Pilots get the sick policies they deserve.
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Wow. Do the passengers also get the unsafe sick pilots who shouldn't be flying that they deserve? :rolleyes:

Btw, I can do the really jerky smug face too. [emoji57]
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Not as good as I can. I've perfected the art. :)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No one has disagreed that you had a problem. We have no way of knowing that, nor is it the issue. The issue is the "solution" that they chose. And a sick policy is not an acceptable solution. The solution is to discipline people who lie about being sick. Period. End of story.



Wow. Do the passengers also get the unsafe sick pilots who shouldn't be flying that they deserve? :rolleyes:



Not as good as I can. I've perfected the art. :)
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A general policy with good upper limits doesn't encourage sick flying. Besides, people fly sick most often because they WANT to, not because the company pushes them to. I called in sick last month and it killed me to do it because it cost me at least $500 to do so, since I can't sell back that PTO at 1.5 my pay rate.

I get what you're saying, I do. But your idea is flawed because humans are flawed. We need rules. We need boundaries. A properly designed policy will discourage cheating, and encourage legit sick calls.

Since we had NO policy, people thought the company didn't care if you called out. Even the CPO would tacitly approve of it. Creating a policy showed that the company did care, and instantaneously stopped probably 90% of the abuse.

We can argue about the policy and how it was implemented, but the policy was needed. The results speak for themselves.

And you're better at the jerky smug face because, well...you can see where that sentence is headed...
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
A general policy with good upper limits doesn't encourage sick flying.
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Holy crap, it's like talking to a stump. If there's a policy with an upper limit of 8 sick calls, you've legitimately called in sick 8 times this year, and now you come down with a sinus infection, then the policy is encouraging you to fly sick.

Besides, people fly sick most often because they WANT to, not because the company pushes them to. I called in sick last month and it killed me to do it because it cost me at least $500 to do so, since I can't sell back that PTO at 1.5 my pay rate.
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All you've done is point out yet another policy that encourages flying while sick.

The results speak for themselves.
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Yes, they do: they indicate that sick calls have gone down, just as @Seggy and I said, because people are scared to call in sick.

These policies should be illegal. They're a danger to the public.
 
No question our PTO system discourages sick calls. Well, it discourages paid sick calls. Most people call out unpaid, then sell back the PTO at 1.5 their hourly rate. (They won't let instructors call out unpaid, so I don't have that option. That means a sick call costs me money.)

But I agree we should change our PTO system since it probably has a negative effect on sick calls. But people LOVE it because it makes them so much money. My buddy made $45,000 last year selling back his PTO. Everybody wants our sell back of PTO to stick around in the new CBA.

In your example, no one will fire you for the 9th call. But you'll have to demonstrate that it wasn't BS. You'll get a closed look. I'm okay with that. People who call out once a month SHOULD get a closer look. Hell, if I call out once a month I should get a closer look. Anyone should.

We just aren't going to agree.
 
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Seggy said:
There are other ways to handle 'sick call abuse' other than policies.

You don't create policy for a minority.
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If I'm a chief pilot, I can't say that you are abusing sick calls if there is no policy defining what abuse might look like. Hell, if there wasn't a sick policy at all I would tell the CPO to pound sand when they called me in. I can call in sick any time I like. There's no definition of sick. There's no definition of what abuse might be. There's literally no policy.

You can't abuse something that isn't defined. Good luck firing me if I have broken a rule that doesn't exist. I didn't even lie about being sick, because there's no definition of what sick means since there's no policy. So you can't fire me for lying.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No need to continue. He's not budging. The safety of the flying public be damned!
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If it were unsafe, then sick policies wouldn't be common. Or there would be more accidents because they are so common...

Bad policies exist. Let's fix those, and reinforce the good policies.
 
Seggy said:
@PhilosopherPilot you really have your head in the sand.

The regs were changed because of the First Officer on 3407 wasn't fit to fly (sick/fatigued from commuting). Hence why we have to make sure we are 'fit for duty' before every flight.
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I'm fully aware. If you're not fit, don't fly. But there should be a good policy. Ours needs work, but we needed it.
 
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