When is a flight considered "dispatched"

Luigi said:
Yeah so at the company they work for if the flight time is below an hour (taxi out+burn) they would require a legal METAR to launch. They can launch if they have the required RVR reading and the METAR is still illegal. Their company doesn't have that "upward trend" language that a lot of the majors carry.
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Even with a METAR below mins, it takes 10-15 mins for the crew to get the aircraft ready, another 30 minutes to board and another 15 minutes at a minimum for taxi. At some hub airports it will be 30-40 minutes taxi time. By the time you get boarded up and taxied out, you are guaranteed have another METAR update if not by that time then very soon after. If the forecast is legal and you want to be ready to go as soon as the visibility goes up I see no problem with boarding up and/or taxiing out to wait. METARs can update multiple times an hour with visibility changes.

You can send the release out with the forecast below landing mins. All you need to do is agree on a plan of action on when to depart with the captain. You can even make it a condition of the release. You want the airplane fueled and crew to have their paperwork ready in these situations as visibility is very dynamic and can change fast.

Every airline has the "upward trend" language. Its part of the FAR. A combination of a legal forecast and METARs improving is all that is needed to satisfy FAR requirements. Now, the POI or airline itself may take a view that is more restrictive than the FARs.
 
Flagship_dxer said:
Even with a METAR below mins, it takes 10-15 mins for the crew to get the aircraft ready, another 30 minutes to board and another 15 minutes at a minimum for taxi. At some hub airports it will be 30-40 minutes taxi time. By the time you get boarded up and taxied out, you are guaranteed have another METAR update if not by that time then very soon after. If the forecast is legal and you want to be ready to go as soon as the visibility goes up I see no problem with boarding up and/or taxiing out to wait. METARs can update multiple times an hour with visibility changes.

You can send the release out with the forecast below landing mins. All you need to do is agree on a plan of action on when to depart with the captain. You can even make it a condition of the release. You want the airplane fueled and crew to have their paperwork ready in these situations as visibility is very dynamic and can change fast.

Every airline has the "upward trend" language. Its part of the FAR. A combination of a legal forecast and METARs improving is all that is needed to satisfy FAR requirements. Now, the POI or airline itself may take a view that is more restrictive than the FARs.
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Well, you most certainly can not dispatch an aircraft with a TAF below landing mins (assuming it doesn't qualify for 3585). No matter what plan of action you've come up with. Since at the company they're referring to the point of dispatch is so early they couldn't depart the gate until they've actually received a legal METAR and TAF (still assuming we're talking under an hour). Unless the TAF is legal, and the RVRs are legal with an illegal METAR. That's not to say you're not looking at the WX, notice an upward trend and say "hey let's board up, I expect the next METAR to be legal, then we can depart."

Each company differs...I'm talking about one very specific regional airline I'm familiar with.
 
I don't remember the exact details. Something similar has happened to me three times now. Dx told me it was illegal to release the brake and wouldn't let us go. I was going to KCID in this one case and I can't remember if they were reporting RVR's or if they even have RVR's. The TAF was trending upward but we still had to wait for that METAR to be legal. We were boarded up and ready to go as soon as the next METAR was out and we dropped the brake and left. Another case, I was going to KCMX and the VOR there was out. Maybe the ILS was out too. Either way we had to wait until the ceiling was 2000' agl because the only available approach was a GPS. Either way, we waited hours for the ceiling to go from 1800' to 2000' even though it was basically VFR there and the GPS would have gotten us in without a problem. Again, I can't remember the exact details. Maybe our dxer knows that?
 
saxman said:
I don't remember the exact details. Something similar has happened to me three times now. Dx told me it was illegal to release the brake and wouldn't let us go. I was going to KCID in this one case and I can't remember if they were reporting RVR's or if they even have RVR's. The TAF was trending upward but we still had to wait for that METAR to be legal. We were boarded up and ready to go as soon as the next METAR was out and we dropped the brake and left. Another case, I was going to KCMX and the VOR there was out. Maybe the ILS was out too. Either way we had to wait until the ceiling was 2000' agl because the only available approach was a GPS. Either way, we waited hours for the ceiling to go from 1800' to 2000' even though it was basically VFR there and the GPS would have gotten us in without a problem. Again, I can't remember the exact details. Maybe our dxer knows that?
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The CMX one is funny. That's because of a very interesting rule at your company that said you always need to have a ground based back up on single FMS ac. So if the VOR was OTS and the missed approach was based off the VOR you would then require MVA and an alternate to assure that if while on approach your FMS had failed you could still fly a missed approach.
 
At pinnacle I had an FO who pulled up a DTW meter/taf as we taxied out for takeoff from Stewart and said we needed an alternate. I advised him that we didn't as we already left the gate. He said I was wrong. I pulled over and called dispatch and they told me he was 100% incorrect. He said he wouldn't fly until he had an alternate. I called dispatch back and told them the situation and they were pissed. Went back and got more fuel and was about an hour late. I missed my commute. I was pissed at the FO. Moral of the story is that FO sucked :bounce:

Granted it was a former Colgan dispatcher at pinnacle so maybe they were wrong ‍♀️
 
L-16B said:
\I had an FO who pulled up a DTW meter/taf as we taxied out for takeoff from Stewart and said we needed an alternate. I advised him that we didn't as we already left the gate.
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I think there are a lot of pilots who misunderstand what is required in terms of alternates before you are dispatched vs if conditions change during flight.
 
L-16B said:
At pinnacle I had an FO who pulled up a DTW meter/taf as we taxied out for takeoff from Stewart and said we needed an alternate. I advised him that we didn't as we already left the gate. He said I was wrong. I pulled over and called dispatch and they told me he was 100% incorrect. He said he wouldn't fly until he had an alternate. I called dispatch back and told them the situation and they were pissed. Went back and got more fuel and was about an hour late. I missed my commute. I was pissed at the FO. Moral of the story is that FO sucked :bounce:

Granted it was a former Colgan dispatcher at pinnacle so maybe they were wrong ‍♀️
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So wait. He was using an illegal electronic device in the cockpit?
 
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