When are you required to file IFR?

JaceTheAce

JaceTheAce

Well-Known Member
My dad (CFI/CFII/MEI/ATP) keeps quizzing me on this question and wants EXACT correct answer - he won't tell me until I get it right! :D
 
look in the FAR's!!! :insane:

he might be talking about the difference between operations
91, 135, 121, 125, 129 (hint! hint!)
 
JaceTheAce said:
My dad (CFI/CFII/MEI/ATP) keeps quizzing me on this question and wants EXACT correct answer - he won't tell me until I get it right! :D
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=The= exact correct answer or =his= exact correct answer?

"operating in controlled airspace in conditions less than those required under visual flight rules" is one

Of course, give me that answer and I could argue it's not EXACT.
 
GA answer:
Anytime you are operating in IMC OR under IFR rules in controlled airspace and/or above 17999 MSL.

Of course I am just a dumb FO, so what do I know :argue:
 
casey said:
IMC in class G.



chicken or the egg?



FL180 to FL600, remember its just class E above that :)
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Come on man, don't tear the sentance apart to try to look smart, and to get to FL600 you would have to go through FLs 180 to 599.
 
FL180 to FL600, remember its just class E above that :)
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Right, and Class E is controlled airspace. What's your point here?

As far as part 91 operations go, the answer is pretty straight forward...whenever operating under IFR in controlled airpsace you must have a flight plan on file and recieve an ATC clearance. Right out of 91.173.

You could say IMC (rather then IFR)...like midlifeflyer did, but if he's thinking along the same lines as I am, there are a can of worms of exemptions to that rule that could be opened up. For example...1 SM vis. is considered IMC in Class D airpspace, but you could still operate under Special VFR....no IFR flight plan or IFR clearance required.
 
chrisdahut1 said:
Right, and Class E is controlled airspace. What's your point here?

As far as part 91 operations go, the answer is pretty straight forward...whenever operating under IFR in controlled airpsace you must have a flight plan on file and recieve an ATC clearance. Right out of 91.173.

You could say IMC (rather then IFR)...like midlifeflyer did, but if he's thinking along the same lines as I am, there are a can of worms of exemptions to that rule that could be opened up. For example...1 SM vis. is considered IMC in Class D airpspace, but you could still operate under Special VFR....no IFR flight plan or IFR clearance required.
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Good point on the vis in class D, forgot about that! I guess a definition of IMC is in order, lets see....

IMC is anytime you are below the prescribed cloud and/or visual limits stipulated in the FARs, including SVFR clearances.
 
IMC in class G.
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Can you fly in IMC/IFR (IFR, assumption of flight plan) in Class G airspace? Just because ATC doesn't have control of that airspace, it doesn't mean you can ignore the rules. You are responsible for aircraft and cloud seperation when not on an IFR flight plan (VFR). If you're in the clouds, and ATC isn't assuming the responsibility of watching your back, no one is.
 
Dugie8 said:
Good point on the vis in class D, forgot about that! I guess a definition of IMC is in order, lets see....

IMC is anytime you are below the prescribed cloud and/or visual limits stipulated in the FARs, including SVFR clearances.
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Such as if you obtain an SVFR from sunset to sunrise, in which case you need to be instrument rated.
 
todd584 said:
Can you fly in IMC/IFR (IFR, assumption of flight plan) in Class G airspace? Just because ATC doesn't have control of that airspace, it doesn't mean you can ignore the rules. You are responsible for aircraft and cloud seperation when not on an IFR flight plan (VFR). If you're in the clouds, and ATC isn't assuming the responsibility of watching your back, no one is.
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You only have to maintain VFR cloud clearances while operating under VFR. You do not have to maintain them while operating under IFR. To operate IFR in *controlled* airspace, you need a clearance, but there is no such requirement to operate IFR in uncontrolled airspace (an in fact, they cant control you in uncontrolled airspace, hence the name).

With that said, flying around IMC with no one watching your back is not smart and should anything happen that doesnt kill you you can bet the FAA will pull out the "careless and reckless" FAR to bust you on.
 
todd584 said:
Can you fly in IMC/IFR (IFR, assumption of flight plan) in Class G airspace? Just because ATC doesn't have control of that airspace, it doesn't mean you can ignore the rules. You are responsible for aircraft and cloud seperation when not on an IFR flight plan (VFR). If you're in the clouds, and ATC isn't assuming the responsibility of watching your back, no one is.
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Technically yes. You can fly in IMC in G w/out ATC notification. If we were to depart under IFR in Class G, ATC would tell us to contact ____ (controlling agency) prior to entering controlled airspace. Since ATC cant exactly clear you for departure or arrival into the Class G airspace. Even if you did notify ATC that you were going to depart IFR from a Class G, there would be no seperation services provided and no clearance issued. So, whether they'd use 91.13 Careless or Recless as their catch-all is dependent on the specific situation.

But as I said, IMC in class G w/out a clearance is legal simply b/c ATC has nothing really to do with class G. They couldnt issue you an IFR clearance if they wanted to.
 
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