What's up with 9e

Gonzo said:
Nothing happen to the guys at Eagle that might have leak NDA info.
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Nothing going to happen here either. Everyone suspects each other and unfortunately a bunch of kids wanted to show each other in the crew room how much they knew. Hopefully no blowback because of it, but I doubt there will be much NDA in the future, unless NDA somehow spells "a buNch of Detroit guys telling everyone information contained in the nda on Apc". Just speculation.
 
jynxyjoe said:
A few pilots here are buying the Leather Jacket, but I don't think you'll see many people buying the black overcoat. One guy did get a wool one because he thought it would look professional. That's fine, he has the money to spend, great for him. If I can find something reasonable for a black overcoat I will but for now - especially as little as I use the trenchcoat - I'll be using the blue one. I'd like to get away from using it all together, but the moment I say that I'll be on the -200 doing 9 legs a day in the rain. Tough ta-ta's then, it'll be mismatched and that's just the way it is.
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How is only wearing the Blue overcoat any better than mismatching or wearing the blue pants when you are supposed to wear the black? You are either a Professional or you are not. Professionalism isn't dictated by cost.
 
If the black overcoat is to be considered part of the uniform, then the company is supposed to be providing it, and they aren't. I will not spend one cent on a uniform item the company is supposed to be giving me. That's all there is to it.

I got the leather jacket a few years ago with the uniform allowance because the overcoat is completely worthless. It's neither warm nor waterproof and generally looks like crap. What's the damn point?
 
Rocketman99 said:
If the black overcoat is to be considered part of the uniform, then the company is supposed to be providing it, and they aren't. I will not spend one cent on a uniform item the company is supposed to be giving me. That's all there is to it.

I got the leather jacket a few years ago with the uniform allowance because the overcoat is completely worthless. It's neither warm nor waterproof and generally looks like crap. What's the damn point?
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They don't give you black shoes or black belt. But you buy those. They don't give you money for a black rollerbag or flight case either, and yet I am sure you are pulling one behind you.
 
blee256 said:
They don't give you black shoes or black belt. But you buy those. They don't give you money for a black rollerbag or flight case either, and yet I am sure you are pulling one behind you.
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Oh right you are about that. You would have a point if the contract did not stipulate that cost of uniform changes would be the burden of the company.
 
blee256 said:
They don't give you black shoes or black belt. But you buy those. They don't give you money for a black rollerbag or flight case either, and yet I am sure you are pulling one behind you.
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With attitudes like this(considering I posted the section of the contract #218) its a wonder why Pinnacle's negotiations took so long? I'm suprised you just didn't extend the old contract in 2005.
 
Because I am telling you to be a professional and to wear the proper uniform? That makes me a "company man"?

I may have jumped the gun on Rocketman99. for that, my bad. I missed the point he was trying to make, that the company needs to pay for the overcoat. I agree. But just because they dont, you can't go around wearing whatever you want. If you think you are really hurting the company by wearing a blue coat as opposed to a black, news flash. You aren't. You're just making yourself and your profession look bad.
 
Once again, the ego of us pilots amaze me. Does anyone really think that the average passenger really gives a rat's furry behind what we look like? As long as you don't come stumbling to the gate drunk, your hair messed up, your shirt untucked and swearing like a sailor talking about the latest "who-slept-with-who" gossip... does anyone REALLY think they will notice or understand the difference when one is wearing blue and the other is wearing black? Or that someone is wearing a Eddie Bauer jacket instead of a the FOM prescribed pedo-flasher trench coat or leather jacket? I guarantee the thought of most passengers sitting at the gate when you arrive is "Good, the pilot's here so we should be on time. Now pass me the USA Today..."
 
blee256 said:
Because I am telling you to be a professional and to wear the proper uniform? That makes me a "company man"?

I may have jumped the gun on Rocketman99. for that, my bad. I missed the point he was trying to make, that the company needs to pay for the overcoat. I agree. But just because they dont, you can't go around wearing whatever you want. If you think you are really hurting the company by wearing a blue coat as opposed to a black, news flash. You aren't. You're just making yourself and your profession look bad.
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When the time comes and we switch uniforms I will continue to wear my blue coat until the contract which was collectively bargained and agreed to by both sides is honored. You can be a "professional" by what ever your definition is and I will just continue to do my job with the resources the company has given to me to complete that task.
 
blee256 said:
I missed the point he was trying to make, that the company needs to pay for the overcoat. I agree. But just because they dont, you can't go around wearing whatever you want. If you think you are really hurting the company by wearing a blue coat as opposed to a black, news flash. You aren't. You're just making yourself and your profession look bad.
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I disagree. The rest of the uniform fine, but the overcoat? Nope. I'm not concerned with hurting the company or not hurting the company. I'm just not dropping ridiculous amounts of cash on a coat that has zero use outside of work (unlike shoes or a belt, c'mon dude...). If it's cold I will wear a respectable looking coat that comes as close to represting the uniform image as I can without costing me additional money since the Kompany was supposed to have provided it for me.

Personally, I don't think the coat is at all important as long as you don't show up looking like a harajuku girl. As long as the actual uniform (shirt, pants, tie, hat possibly, uniform coat/leather jacket) is being worn it should be a non-issue.
 
TristarJS30 said:
Once again, the ego of us pilots amaze me. Does anyone really think that the average passenger really gives a rat's furry behind what we look like? As long as you don't come stumbling to the gate drunk, your hair messed up, your shirt untucked and swearing like a sailor talking about the latest "who-slept-with-who" gossip... does anyone REALLY think they will notice or understand the difference when one is wearing blue and the other is wearing black? Or that someone is wearing a Eddie Bauer jacket instead of a the FOM prescribed pedo-flasher trench coat or leather jacket? I guarantee the thought of most passengers sitting at the gate when you arrive is "Good, the pilot's here so we should be on time. Now pass me the USA Today..."
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Agreed! How many times have you been behind the Gate desk making a phone call, or checking your paperwork and have had a passenger come up to you and ask to be rebooked or upgraded? They have no idea if you're a pilot or gate agent, let alone if you're wearing the correct jacket.
 
Rocketman99 said:
I disagree. The rest of the uniform fine, but the overcoat? Nope. I'm not concerned with hurting the company or not hurting the company. I'm just not dropping ridiculous amounts of cash on a coat that has zero use outside of work (unlike shoes or a belt, c'mon dude...). If it's cold I will wear a respectable looking coat that comes as close to represting the uniform image as I can without costing me additional money since the Kompany was supposed to have provided it for me.

Personally, I don't think the coat is at all important as long as you don't show up looking like a harajuku girl. As long as the actual uniform (shirt, pants, tie, hat possibly, uniform coat/leather jacket) is being worn it should be a non-issue.
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I have no problem with that. Not like my opinion matters. haha. But I was more referring to wearing a blue coat, when you should be wearing black. My trenchcoat is different from newer pilots at my company, even tho we both bought them through M & H. I believe the company policy states that our uniform has to be bought through only approved sources. But I bought my pants at BR and my shirts, I got them custom made during my travels in Asia. As long as you got the color combo, no one is gonna say anything to you. I think jynxjoe mentioned one of his co-workers bought one of the nice wool ones. Those are very nice. And its Black.

TristarJS30 said:
Once again, the ego of us pilots amaze me. Does anyone really think that the average passenger really gives a rat's furry behind what we look like? As long as you don't come stumbling to the gate drunk, your hair messed up, your shirt untucked and swearing like a sailor talking about the latest "who-slept-with-who" gossip... does anyone REALLY think they will notice or understand the difference when one is wearing blue and the other is wearing black? Or that someone is wearing a Eddie Bauer jacket instead of a the FOM prescribed pedo-flasher trench coat or leather jacket? I guarantee the thought of most passengers sitting at the gate when you arrive is "Good, the pilot's here so we should be on time. Now pass me the USA Today..."
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What's ego got to do with this? That I claim passengers look at their pilots? Of course they do. I know pilots aren't viewed as highly as they once were, but people still look at us. And they will absolutely notice if one of their pilots is wearing black with gold stripes and the other is wearing blue with grey stripes.
 
TristarJS30 said:
Once again, the ego of us pilots amaze me. Does anyone really think that the average passenger really gives a rat's furry behind what we look like? As long as you don't come stumbling to the gate drunk, your hair messed up, your shirt untucked and swearing like a sailor talking about the latest "who-slept-with-who" gossip... does anyone REALLY think they will notice or understand the difference when one is wearing blue and the other is wearing black? Or that someone is wearing a Eddie Bauer jacket instead of a the FOM prescribed pedo-flasher trench coat or leather jacket? I guarantee the thought of most passengers sitting at the gate when you arrive is "Good, the pilot's here so we should be on time. Now pass me the USA Today..."
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I couldn't disagree more, and I don't think it has to do with monstrous egos. It does have to do with pride and professionalism. We, speaking of colgan only of course, look like we have the mentality of young college kids. Half of the pilots don't shave before early shows, don't shine their shoes and don't press their uniforms on top of having disheveled hair and non compliant uniforms. It looks like a joke. The passengers may not say much, but they are definitely more respectful and take their pilot much more seriously if they are pressed, clean cut and sharp looking.

I think that it is not unique to our jobs. any job where there is a little bit more formality in dress, there is more respect given. That is why, managers tend to wear ties when workers wear polo's.
 
sherpa said:
I couldn't disagree more, and I don't think it has to do with monstrous egos. It does have to do with pride and professionalism. We, speaking of colgan only of course, look like we have the mentality of young college kids. Half of the pilots don't shave before early shows, don't shine their shoes and don't press their uniforms on top of having disheveled hair and non compliant uniforms. It looks like a joke. The passengers may not say much, but they are definitely more respectful and take their pilot much more seriously if they are pressed, clean cut and sharp looking.

I think that it is not unique to our jobs. any job where there is a little bit more formality in dress, there is more respect given. That is why, managers tend to wear ties when workers wear polo's.
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I think you missed my point.

I said: "As long as you don't come stumbling to the gate drunk, your hair messed up, your shirt untucked and swearing like a sailor talking about the latest "who-slept-with-who" gossip... does anyone REALLY think they will notice or understand the difference when one is wearing blue and the other is wearing black?"

I also work at Colgan, and quite a few times I've had to politely ask my FO and/or FA to act like a professional... from suggesting they shave before reporting the next morning, not texting in front of passengers, swearing, off color jokes, crash-pad romance gossip and once I even had to tell my FO to get up off the floor after he decided a 2 minute wait for the gate agent was long enough to sit on the nasty EWR carpet cross-legged and begin texting(in uniform). I'm sure they all think I'm a stick in the mud, but I do think a certain respect should be had when wearing the uniform in public.

That being said, I stand by my original post that the average airline passenger couldn't care less or even notice if we had mixed color uniforms or have on an Eddie Bauer jacket over the uniform. And THAT has to do with our egos as pilots thinking the airline world still revolves around us and passengers still care. It's the same argument I make for not wearing the hat. The flying public couldn't give a flying flip if we have on the lid or not. As long as we get them to their Disney vacation on time and as cheaply as possible they'll be happy. Wearing black or blue or gold or silver or a non standard (yet still professional looking) coats makes no difference to anyone but us.

Yes, a frequent flier or aviation enthusiast might notice, but when we carry 74 passengers from EWR to PWM... chances are 73 of them will never know or care about the difference. Same goes for any airline.
 
blee256 said:
How is only wearing the Blue overcoat any better than mismatching or wearing the blue pants when you are supposed to wear the black? You are either a Professional or you are not. Professionalism isn't dictated by cost.
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Excuse me? The blue is approved by the company, got it in writing. Professional isn't dictated by whatever you feel like today.
 
Tram said:
I quit. Peace. :)
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Today? Congrads man! Couldn't have timed that better.

If you change your mind (which you won't) sounds like the BK won't be long, Menke has done enough to get us profitable by the 3rd quarter (though where have we heard that before? hmmm).
 
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