What's the strategy now?

DenverPilot8

DenverPilot8

Well-Known Member
With all of the recent pilot furloughs and airline industry decline around the world I was wondering what other aspiring professional pilots are doing now? I finished my Commercial Multi about 1 1/2 months ago and have have not flown at all since my checkride. I had been paying for training out of pocket for the last two years and took a small loan to pay for the multi time. When I decided to become a professional pilot they were hiring people at 250 hours and and RJ course. But yielding the advice from members of the JC community I decided to take my time since no amount of gorilla math was going to yield affordability with a 60k loan for ATP and a 20k salary first year. I worked a corporate job and delivered chinese food at night to save money to supplement my first year FO income in hopes that I could weather the first few years. As I saved money I bought a condo for 75k (last sold for 130k) with a mortgage of $371 a month in hopes that eventually in 5-6 years it would make enough money to pay off flight training costs. Prepared and ready I thought I signed up for ATP 90day course starting in March of 08. I Put my deposit down and started studying. But as my class date approached I saw the start of a major decline in the regionals and bit the bullet for $2000 in lost deposit to not attend ATP. I went on to get my instrument at a local FBO and then started time building for my Commercial. I then saw another opportunity and purchased another property in downtown Denver and continued to save money (although I lost some in mutual funds). At this point I'm 2 1/2 years in pursuing a career in which many people have found nothing but dispair. I have always been determined to be smart and pursue a flying career smarter by knowing and analyzing all of the income numbers and aviation downsides. But as I read Jetcareers everyday there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel and no fast recovery in sight. I waited and was patient when others took the plunge two years ago and made it to the airlines. I'm 26 now soon to be 27 and can't help but feel somewhat demolished at the state of things looking in from the outside. I suppose it is better looking in then facing some of the difficulties many on here are going through actually being in the industry. But what is the strategy now? Do people like me go for CFI when even those jobs are hard to find? do I just continue not flying (but not spending money on flying) and risk forgetting a lot and not being current? I see that some people are still plunging money into flight training. If you are at ATP, UND, ERAU, Flight Safety in a professional pilot program what are your plans when you finish?

Jeremy
 
Whenever the airlines start hiring again, you're going to need more hours than you have now.

If being a CFI interests you at all, go get your CFI/II/MEI. It sounds like you're responsible as hell with money, so you'll probably do a fine job paying for those ratings.

Eventually (like in the next 18 months) things should start slowly moving again, and between now and then you'll have started a part time CFI job and should have made enough contacts to go full time and wrap up the rest of your hours to start mailing out resumes.

If I had a crystal ball (and you're still motivated to go to a regional), that's how I would see the next few years of your flight career progressing.

So you're right, there is no fast recovery in sight. I've been furloughed for 9 months, it will be another 1-2 years before my number gets called. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel, for both of us :). We'll just be a little older than we thought we would be (I'm also 26 about to turn 27 btw).
 
i just finished up comm se and me instrument and cfi. im 22 years old and going to live with my parents... cant wait for free rent and food. im going to try to save up and do my cfii
 
Yeah I had though it would be best to be on first year FO pay BEFORE I turn 30 :) I think I would really enjoy teaching people. Although I have a check airman contact at Great Lakes that was pretty confident he could get me an interview with a few hundred more hours once they start hiring again. But again if first year FO pay at other regionals is 16k-20k then great lakes would be around 12-13k!!! I say that with respect to people working there as I realize that they are under different circumstances over there. Of course I'm not saying at all that I would be more qualified then a lot of people who have applied there I'm just saying I have a contact.
 
My best advice is to keep the motivation alive no matter how doom and gloom the industry seems to be. Eventually you will get your "break" and then progress from there. I highly recommend getting your CFI ratings as I have learned a ton of information in the past 3 months from instructing. I now know that I really wouldn't have been ready to fly a jet w/ 250 and a wet COMM. Anyways when you get your CFI ratings get a hold of me, our flight school always seems to be pulling in new instructors from time to time.
 
I just graduated. Right now I don't really know what to do. I'm searching for non-flying aviation jobs, or any job really, and I'm thinking about giving up flying. I think I would prefer just renting a skyhawk and flying it around every once in awhile to get the flying fix while working in a non-flying job.
 
cmsuav8r said:
I just graduated. Right now I don't really know what to do. I'm searching for non-flying aviation jobs, or any job really, and I'm thinking about giving up flying. I think I would prefer just renting a skyhawk and flying it around every once in awhile to get the flying fix while working in a non-flying job.
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Just curious what ratings did you end up with and what ultimately made you want to give up pursuing a professional career?
 
DenverPilot8 said:
I waited and was patient when others took the plunge two years ago and made it to the airlines. I'm 26 now soon to be 27 and can't help but feel somewhat demolished at the state of things looking in from the outside.
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And how many of those guys that took the plunge two years ago to go to the regionals are now furloughed without a job? Many don't even have their CFI, 135 times or a college degree! Not that it really matters, because nobody is hiring. But, I am glad I have my CFIs and a non-aviation college degree. I know how you feel and it truly sucks right now, but things will turn around, it is only a matter of time. I thought about getting out of aviation, but the way I look at it, I invested too much time, money and effort into this career to quit now. Also, I'm the same age as you, and we still got close to 40 years of working left to do.

I've been trying to stay current while on furlough, even if it is only taking up a C172 once a month. Also, I think there are just too many people focused on the Airlines as a career. There are so many different types of flying jobs and aviation jobs out there that can be fun, well paying and help you advance your career. I think you did the right thing by taking your time with your flight training.
 
Yes, things will turn around.

It's a cycle. Yup.

That said, those who are not in the profession right now are able to get a first hand lesson at the trials and tribulations of working in this profession. Recognize what people are going through, even those who managed their finances very well and how those who perhaps didn't, or who left for the first airline job are handling it.

The ditching a 230/mo crashpad thread is an excellent starting point.

After this cycle, no one can have any excuses.
 
DenverPilot8 said:
With all of the recent pilot furloughs and airline industry decline around the world I was wondering what other aspiring professional pilots are doing now? I finished my Commercial Multi about 1 1/2 months ago and have have not flown at all since my checkride. I had been paying for training out of pocket for the last two years and took a small loan to pay for the multi time. When I decided to become a professional pilot they were hiring people at 250 hours and and RJ course. But yielding the advice from members of the JC community I decided to take my time since no amount of gorilla math was going to yield affordability with a 60k loan for ATP and a 20k salary first year. I worked a corporate job and delivered chinese food at night to save money to supplement my first year FO income in hopes that I could weather the first few years. As I saved money I bought a condo for 75k (last sold for 130k) with a mortgage of $371 a month in hopes that eventually in 5-6 years it would make enough money to pay off flight training costs. Prepared and ready I thought I signed up for ATP 90day course starting in March of 08. I Put my deposit down and started studying. But as my class date approached I saw the start of a major decline in the regionals and bit the bullet for $2000 in lost deposit to not attend ATP. I went on to get my instrument at a local FBO and then started time building for my Commercial. I then saw another opportunity and purchased another property in downtown Denver and continued to save money (although I lost some in mutual funds). At this point I'm 2 1/2 years in pursuing a career in which many people have found nothing but dispair. I have always been determined to be smart and pursue a flying career smarter by knowing and analyzing all of the income numbers and aviation downsides. But as I read Jetcareers everyday there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel and no fast recovery in sight. I waited and was patient when others took the plunge two years ago and made it to the airlines. I'm 26 now soon to be 27 and can't help but feel somewhat demolished at the state of things looking in from the outside. I suppose it is better looking in then facing some of the difficulties many on here are going through actually being in the industry. But what is the strategy now? Do people like me go for CFI when even those jobs are hard to find? do I just continue not flying (but not spending money on flying) and risk forgetting a lot and not being current? I see that some people are still plunging money into flight training. If you are at ATP, UND, ERAU, Flight Safety in a professional pilot program what are your plans when you finish?

Jeremy
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Try not to sweat it, man. Imagine what it would be like to be 50 grand in debt and on reserve and not flying or worse yet, furloughed!! The industry WILL cycle. The sky will clear and it won't be like the light at the end of the tunnel. It will be more like sitting in the back of a roller coaster. You know the drop is coming but it's hard to tell when. Take it from me. I was in exactly your position in 2000. I missed the hiring spree of the late 90's by like a couple months!
 
I finished ATP at the end of April 2008. I have been instructing since then. The money is not great but I am having a good time and learning alot. I plan to stick it out at least through 2010 before returning to a beige cube somewhere.

Get the CFIs if you are interested in going the airline route at some point.
 
matt152 said:
I finished ATP at the end of April 2008. I have been instructing since then. The money is not great but I am having a good time and learning alot. I plan to stick it out at least through 2010 before returning to a beige cube somewhere.

Get the CFIs if you are interested in going the airline route at some point.
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so you are just doing cfi for the fun of it before you go back to your high salary job in the future? must be nice,
 
OregonTrail said:
so you are just doing cfi for the fun of it before you go back to your high salary job in the future? must be nice,
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No. I am CFIing because it is fun and it is a flying job and I hope to be an airline pilot some day.

And I have a high salary job to fall back on.

You may call it nice. I call it having a Plan B.
 
Get 1200, go fly freight. Make a pest of yourself at whoever is local, make sure it is known that you're ready whenever to go wherever and haul the dog doo. They don't really care whether you have 5000 or 1200, if you're available and breathing when they need someone. Added bonus is that you'll learn to really fly. I've been doing it for 4 years now (decidedly NOT in my five year plan) and I'm not tired of it yet, in spite of the insane hours and low pay. Then, when the hiring starts again, you'll have 3000TPIC and a heck of a lot of good stories. Or so I tell myself...
 
To the OP:

Sounds like you're going about it the smart way. Pay as you go, and setting yourself up for a livable situation.

I started flying in 1992. My first CFI was a former 737 CA for Midway (the Original). Unfortunately, he only had a 2 year degree, and couldn't find a job doing anything. Times were tough then too. There was a collapse of the industry in the late 80s, as well.

He was working nights at FedEx loading the jets, and CFIing during the day.

Eventually, he got an internal interview at FedEx from working on the ramp.

All I can submit to you is to keep one foot in flying, meet all kinds of people because you never know where the path may lead if you want to fly for a living. There are MANY avenues to fly that don't include being a regional FO and the pay is livable. The thing I'd look at immediately, is "Do I want to fly professionally, or do I want to be a 121 Pilot at all costs?" If it's the former, there are many avenues you can pursue and get a toe hold in, but they tend to be cottage industry jobs, so you need "to know a guy ;)". From there you can take the path less travelled and still arrive at a 121 major, if that's your desire.

Or you might find your calling flying ag work, high-end 135, corporate work, or who knows.

It's all up to you, but showing planning, hustle and common sense like you exhibited in your post, I'm sure you'll be successful no matter what you pursue.
 
Strategy right now is in investing. Invest in yourself, so when the time is right - you will be right there and ready. I've been on JC long enough to see a doom and gloom cycle followed by an irrational exuberance cycle. Warren Buffet did not get rich by selling when everyone else was jumping out of the window on Wall St. - he used the opportunity to buy. My story is similar in a way to yours, except I'm a lot older than you, I'm just about to finish up my CMEL and then I'm going to look into insturctor certificates. For me, just as it is for you my friend, wouldn't make any sense if everyone starts hiring right now because we don't have the right experience or the hours for it, but if we keep investing in ourselves our time will come in couple years. We bought at the top of the cycle, but that doesn't mean we should quit at the bottom of it - au contraire my friend...and good luck. :)
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I think we are in a perfect storm of age 65 and a down economy. The cycle will turn the other way, but still, this career isn't for everyone. You have to decide how bad you want it. My advice would be to stick with part time flying, get the CFI, and continue to build time and experience. When things pick up again, you can decide if it's worth jumping in with both feet or going another route. In other words, try to keep one foot in while you explore other things with the other foot. You're still young, and that buys you options and time. For sure, try to develop at second income source/career that works for you now and in 30 years. Real estate is a great investment.
 
DE727UPS said:
I think we are in a perfect storm of age 65 and a down economy. The cycle will turn the other way, but still, this career isn't for everyone. You have to decide how bad you want it. My advice would be to stick with part time flying, get the CFI, and continue to build time and experience. When things pick up again, you can decide if it's worth jumping in with both feet or going another route. In other words, try to keep one foot in while you explore other things with the other foot. You're still young, and that buys you options and time. For sure, try to develop at second income source/career that works for you now and in 30 years. Real estate is a great investment.
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That's pretty much my strategy. Waiting out the storm while building a side business.
 
Building up time and experience is never a bad thing, even if you can't make a living doing it. So you teach on the side while you save up money from a job that pays better than a regional job would.

Not too shabby. Then, if things pick back up, you've got some savings so you can actually live, not just exist, on a first year payscale.
 
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