What you would want first responders to know?

scooter2525

scooter2525

Very well Member
Last night I get a call asking if I would go to the airport and show some firefighters the airplane and some things they may want to know if they need to respond to an emergency for it. There were about 25 people some from a different county and so it was a good chance to discuss incident response. We discussed reporting an emergency in air. We we into the plane and I shows them how to shut it down, turning off the battery, O2 location, emergency exits, the seat belts, etc. it got me thinking, if that opportunity arises again, what are some good topics to discuss?
 
First responders need to know that the magnetos can, and likely will, still be live after a crash landing. The engine could kick over and possibly refire if they turn the prop manually
 
This! (However to point to the previous post).

How to open the door (generally 135/121, I suppose - as in United Express 5292, KUIN); How to kill power from batteries & magnetos/where batteries are located in order to cut cables; fuel & souls-on-board capacity.

(Edit for spelling 'cause I found the Gin)
 
Those damn magnetos in the king air. And all that resistance from the prop!

Maybe the firewall fuel shutoff, door and emergency exit. Nothing else should really matter to them.
 
If you happened to go down at 44N (Sky Acres, Millbrook, NY), it's likely four minutes for 911 to get out the dispatch, 4 minutes for me to get to an engine (if I'm home), and a 6 minute drive to the scene - and I'm likely alone. You're on fire for nearly fifteen minutes before the first rig can put water on you, unless you are really, REALLY fortunate. Go down at an airport with staffed fire service? Still looking at five or six minutes probably from initial impact to response time to water/foam on the fire. That's a long, long time at 1,800+ degrees.

If you go down in a field somewhere and have to rely on a cell call or hope that a nearby neighbor sees the "glow," just kiss your ass goodbye.

My advice as a first responder is that you either find God or fly very, very safely ;-)
 
Bob Ridpath said:
If you happened to go down at 44N (Sky Acres, Millbrook, NY), it's likely four minutes for 911 to get out the dispatch, 4 minutes for me to get to an engine (if I'm home), and a 6 minute drive to the scene - and I'm likely alone. You're on fire for nearly fifteen minutes before the first rig can put water on you, unless you are really, REALLY fortunate. Go down at an airport with staffed fire service? Still looking at five or six minutes probably from initial impact to response time to water/foam on the fire. That's a long, long time at 1,800+ degrees.

If you go down in a field somewhere and have to rely on a cell call or hope that a nearby neighbor sees the "glow," just kiss your ass goodbye.

My advice as a first responder is that you either find God or fly very, very safely ;-)
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Most of the time it'll take a half an hour before they even call someone. Get out west and it'll be 2 days or considerably more(possibly never) to find the wreckage. I don't think anyone is relying on first responders to get them out of the airplane. That's still going to be on you.
Most airplane crashes off airport are measured in days and weeks not minutes.
 
The danger associate with ejection seats and ballistic recovery parachute systems.

Also, the line "treat it like a crime scene." Often when people show up at an accident they don't know what level of security to put on the area. The phrase "treat it like a crime scene" has a universal level of meaning that is well understood by all law enforcement personnel.
 
I know MikeD is out slaying dragons or something, but if he can stick his head in the thread for a minute he can probably provide a pretty good list. He's been running aviation fire services for a long, long time.
 
Bob Ridpath said:
If you happened to go down at 44N (Sky Acres, Millbrook, NY), it's likely four minutes for 911 to get out the dispatch, 4 minutes for me to get to an engine (if I'm home), and a 6 minute drive to the scene - and I'm likely alone. You're on fire for nearly fifteen minutes before the first rig can put water on you, unless you are really, REALLY fortunate. Go down at an airport with staffed fire service? Still looking at five or six minutes probably from initial impact to response time to water/foam on the fire. That's a long, long time at 1,800+ degrees.

If you go down in a field somewhere and have to rely on a cell call or hope that a nearby neighbor sees the "glow," just kiss your ass goodbye.

My advice as a first responder is that you either find God or fly very, very safely ;-)
Click to expand...


Some good food at the perfect landing cafe at 44N. Did my private training at KDXR and took my dad to 44N for breakfast the morning after I passed my check ride.
 
CirrusMonkey said:
Evolution isn't going to save your ass either.
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If anything can, then Evolution would be it. The skills I have, and what little intelligence, to fly the airplane and crash land it as well as I can, is a product of Evolution. The adrenaline surge which puts my muscles into overdrive and allows me to force the twisted door open is a product of evolution. The 'fight or flight' that leads my semi-concious form to drag myself away from the flames is from evolution. The proteins which cause my blood to clot so that I don't bleed to death are a product of evolution.

So yeah, that fact that I have millions of years of evolution behind me will actually be very helpful.

So will the EMT's and Surgeons that will save my life using a little science called medicine. Glad they haven't been burned at the stake.
 
NickH said:
If anything can, then Evolution would be it. The skills I have, and what little intelligence, to fly the airplane and crash land it as well as I can, is a product of Evolution. The adrenaline surge which puts my muscles into overdrive and allows me to force the twisted door open is a product of evolution. The 'fight or flight' that leads my semi-concious form to drag myself away from the flames is from evolution. The proteins which cause my blood to clot so that I don't bleed to death are a product of evolution.

So yeah, that fact that I have millions of years of evolution behind me will actually be very helpful.

So will the EMT's and Surgeons that will save my life using a little science called medicine. Glad they haven't been burned at the stake.
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Sorry, didn't add the sarcasm tag. Didn't think I needed it but thanks, I'll write all that down...
 
Bob Ridpath said:
If you happened to go down at 44N (Sky Acres, Millbrook, NY), it's likely four minutes for 911 to get out the dispatch, 4 minutes for me to get to an engine (if I'm home), and a 6 minute drive to the scene - and I'm likely alone. You're on fire for nearly fifteen minutes before the first rig can put water on you, unless you are really, REALLY fortunate. Go down at an airport with staffed fire service? Still looking at five or six minutes probably from initial impact to response time to water/foam on the fire. That's a long, long time at 1,800+ degrees.

If you go down in a field somewhere and have to rely on a cell call or hope that a nearby neighbor sees the "glow," just kiss your ass goodbye.

My advice as a first responder is that you either find God or fly very, very safely ;-)
Click to expand...

Part 139.319. This is my first choice knowing this.
(2) The response required by paragraph (h)(1)(ii) of this section must achieve the following performance criteria:
(i) Within 3 minutes from the time of the alarm, at least one required aircraft rescue and firefighting vehicle must reach the midpoint of the farthest runway serving air carrier aircraft from its assigned post or reach any other specified point of comparable distance on the movement area that is available to air carriers, and begin application of extinguishing agent.
(ii) Within 4 minutes from the time of alarm, all other required vehicles must reach the point specified in paragraph (h)(2)(i) of this section from their assigned posts and begin application of an extinguishing agent.
 
Was the tongue-in-cheek ;-) too subtle? I didn't mean to suggest a serious conversion experience but to note that time is a critical element which is fleeting in a circumstance like that. As short minutes pass, options for a positive outcome diminish - apart from those things you can bring to bear on the situation personally, as noted above.

I can control two elements as a responder to varying degrees: the way I spend the time available in responding properly to an emergency and the training I choose to receive/practice prior to that emergency. The training (knowledge and imprinted muscle memory via practice) directly impacts the use of time in a situation where seconds can count. Frankly, sometimes there just isn't a damned thing you can do to change an outcome. Still gotta' try, though.

Whatever the beliefs of pilot and passengers with regard to deity/evolution/the universe and meaning of life (about which I don't generally care in that situation), as a first responder I can better do my job by learning about the planes you fly into the local airport. Fuel type, battery location, onboard oxygen (bottles or generator), potential number of pilot/crew, best means of access, how to open a door if not straight-forward and obvious, etc.

Anyway, kudos to the OP for initiative and I hope you have the opportunity to repeat the event from time-to-time.
 
[quote="Dynasty22, post: 2078764, member: 14408"]Part 139.319.

Requirement for passenger ops or commercial, right?

I enjoying watching the PC-12 and a King Air at Sky Acres, along with a smattering of light twins but most of the traffic here is (obviously) single engine GA. No such requirement as Part 139 for us, although the pax load for the Pilatus or King Air could be substantial in a relative sense. We treat a 172 as a motor vehicle might be in many ways (with obvious differences of the magneto system and greater fuel quantity). The PC-12 or King Air, I'm thinking, contains significant differences and other hazards to mitigate (fuel type, onboard oxygen, number of crew and pax, heavier construction/ribs to cut for extrication)
 
Don't fire response teams at airports go through full ARFF training? Aren't these kinds of things covered in ARFF training?
 
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