A
Adler
Guest
Cause he's against everything most people agree on.
Last edited by a moderator:
What would you do?
- Thread starter guywhoflies
- Start date
Cause he's against everything most people agree on.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
What job are you looking into at CPZ?
amorris311
Well-Known Member
He's one of the greatest guys I've met in this industry.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Ya haven't met many great people then, I take it?
A
Adler
Guest
My comment wasn't a union jab.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
I didn't take it that way. Just wondering if you're applying for a job on the management side. There are good people on that side and I worked closely with a lot of them.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
I guess not. I've known him his entire airline career and watched him do incredible things for the pilot groups he's been apart of. I know there are plenty of noteworthy people in this industry but I don't have the relationship with them as I do with this individual.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
I am strictly talking about management positions at Fee For Departure Carriers.
99% of Flight Operations Management positions at Fee For Departure Carriers are filled with people who should have no business being in management. They are put in there to be lap dogs to one person calling the shots. Most of them have Napoleonic complexes and just care about themselves, not their pilots. The caliber of those in management at Fee For Departure Carriers and career destination airlines is stunning. Yes, there are some outliers at Fee For Departure Carriers, but 99% are lap dogs who have no business managing a gold fish tank, much less other adults.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Oh, so what do most people agree on?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
He is a fantastic individual.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?
REALLY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
A
Adler
Guest
Have to focus on not getting violated till I'm off high mins.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
I would not go into management unless you would want to be in a management position elsewhere. I'm thinking you'd need at least a masters degree to be a CP at a legacy/LCC anyways, so there's that. I also wouldn't do it if you're doing it for some kind of advantage. There may be an advantage for yourself, but if you're not a leader, it's not going to work out well for you. Your "subordinates" won't respect you, so your current job won't be enjoyable, and anyone you interview with is probably going to sniff out your lack of leadership skills and then you're stuck. No one wants to work for a manager/"boss", they suck.
Management pilot positions are all about balancing politics and inspiration. The company is going to want X, the people you supervise want Y. Inspiring both sides to be OK with Q is what you're up against. If you're not up to the task, don't do it. One or both sides will hate you for it. I've worked for both ends of the spectrum in regards to X and Y. It doesn't work out long-term for the guy in that position. The only thing I make threats over to my superiors, in regards to my pilots, is termination, since I've not come across anyone that deserves termination yet, in my mind.
Also, when the going goes to suck, you need to do the suck. That in and of itself can have more of an affect over anything else you do. Be Teddy Roosevelt storming the hill. That and deflecting blame onto yourself instead of the people you manage, even if it's not your fault, has tremendous impact as well. A line pilot doesn't want to deal with the DO or higher. Even if it was their fault, being comfortable with deflecting the blame onto yourself and dealing with the issue yourself inside your own system works a lot better. I'd even argue that it may even work better than an ASAP program...
This graphic shows the difference between a manager and a leader.
It is sad if none of this applies to any management pilot position, regardless of the operation. ACP/Base CP, whatever the company calls the guys that aren't the part 119 CP, isn't that high up on the chain anyways. The guys up the chain from them should also exhibit these same ideas. No, you can't be a butthole and tell people to play with your love parts, but there's almost always a way to meet in the middle in the short term at least (a month at most). If not, hopefully they let you go back to being a line pilot, because that is exactly what I would do at a minimum. -part 135 ACP at the largest part 135.
I also find it sad that the union advocates don't like CPs either... I figured in the 121 world, the CP was nearly at the same level/"side". If that's not the case, I guess I think A LOT less of most chief pilots... or unions...
Management pilot positions are all about balancing politics and inspiration. The company is going to want X, the people you supervise want Y. Inspiring both sides to be OK with Q is what you're up against. If you're not up to the task, don't do it. One or both sides will hate you for it. I've worked for both ends of the spectrum in regards to X and Y. It doesn't work out long-term for the guy in that position. The only thing I make threats over to my superiors, in regards to my pilots, is termination, since I've not come across anyone that deserves termination yet, in my mind.
Also, when the going goes to suck, you need to do the suck. That in and of itself can have more of an affect over anything else you do. Be Teddy Roosevelt storming the hill. That and deflecting blame onto yourself instead of the people you manage, even if it's not your fault, has tremendous impact as well. A line pilot doesn't want to deal with the DO or higher. Even if it was their fault, being comfortable with deflecting the blame onto yourself and dealing with the issue yourself inside your own system works a lot better. I'd even argue that it may even work better than an ASAP program...
This graphic shows the difference between a manager and a leader.
It is sad if none of this applies to any management pilot position, regardless of the operation. ACP/Base CP, whatever the company calls the guys that aren't the part 119 CP, isn't that high up on the chain anyways. The guys up the chain from them should also exhibit these same ideas. No, you can't be a butthole and tell people to play with your love parts, but there's almost always a way to meet in the middle in the short term at least (a month at most). If not, hopefully they let you go back to being a line pilot, because that is exactly what I would do at a minimum. -part 135 ACP at the largest part 135.
I also find it sad that the union advocates don't like CPs either... I figured in the 121 world, the CP was nearly at the same level/"side". If that's not the case, I guess I think A LOT less of most chief pilots... or unions...
Last edited:
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Yes! Believe it or not there were some good people on the other side of the table. I'm not saying all of them were good but there were some that understood the long game and worked well with the association.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
I am specifically talking about Assistant Chief Pilots, Chief Pilots, and VP of Flight Operation folks. Remember, we had a great relationship with MH and he worked very well with us to fix things. Not to many folks like the person we love who was a CP at Air Cheesehead are out there at the Fee for Departure carriers who are CPs or ACPs or VP of Flight Ops. At most, maybe 3 or 4 total.
Last edited: