What would you do in my situation?

Vector4Food

Vector4Food

This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Flying VFR recently in the clubs Diamondstar, on the way back we had to transition some of the schools published training areas. School/Club SOP's include the requirement to make position reports on the Club traffic frequency for the training areas. (There are five separate training areas surrounding the airport, plus one high performance block)

Long story short, I made a position report entering the training areas, and about 3 minutes later my passenger said "Wow that plane is really close!" as a Diamond Eclipse shot underneath us by around 200 feet.

I called again on the frequency, and got a reply from the aircraft whose excuse was "Sorry I forgot to make a report when I left the zone"

Now I know VFR is all about See and be seen, but considering this is SOP I'm not sure if I should do anything at all. When I informed the pilot we missed each other by so close he seemed very sheepish as if the point was driven home (it sure was for me!), I'm inclined to let it go, hoping he learned his lesson, not wanting him to get in any trouble as he is just a student, and I don't really want to be "That guy", at the same time I don't want him to think that making those sort of mistakes is a casual thing to do.

Would it make sense to formally report this to the club? Or would JC let this go?

There's a very strong argument it's 50/50 anyway, I should have been doing a better scan.
 
I'm with jrh. Club SOPs are non-regulatory (I would assume, I realize this is Cannuckistan). If your regs are like ours, it's your responsability (and his) to see and avoid. You didn't hit each other, no harm no foul. And I'll bet he'll make his calls from here on out.
 
Let it go.... There was a problem, you said something, you took his reaction as he knew he messed up. We all make mistakes. You brought it to his attention, so done.

If it becomes a habit, then maybe run it across a seasoned, respected member of the club. No reason to start a war over what was probably a honest mistake.
 
I'm with the group, while it may be club sop, that doesn't amount to a hill of beans since its non regulatory. Let it go.

Now if it was a vfr only plane flying in imc, then that's the time to approach the situation differently because it's a regulatory rule issue.
 
Talking to him is the right thing to do, I would leave it at that.

Besides, there could just as easily be other VFR traffic in the area that isn't making reports, keeping your eyes open is the first priority.
 
Assume he saw you a mile or two before you saw him. That's why it seemed like no big deal.

If he was too close you share 50% of the blame. It's called see and be seen. You were practicing call and listen.
 
fholbert said:
Assume he saw you a mile or two before you saw him. That's why it seemed like no big deal.

If he was too close you share 50% of the blame. It called see and be seen. You were practicing call and listen.
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Agree 100%

I was making an assumption that everyone was on the radio, as they "always" are, but that's no excuse.

To be honest I was doing usual scans, and there was little to no activity in the air when we left, so I was I admit a little lax.

All that being said, spotting a Diamond Eclipse on a perfect day when it's pointed out to you is difficult at best, let alone when you're not expecting him.
 
canadian_atc said:
All that being said, spotting a Diamond Eclipse on a perfect day when it's pointed out to you is difficult at best, let alone when you're not expecting him.
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Every pilot here with more than 100 hours has had the same thing happen to them. About 5 years ago a guy went 100' under me at Corona, so close I had no time to react. The guy was 100% illegal flying a left hand pattern when he should have been flying a right hand pattern. However, I was still responsible for see and be seen.

The very next day we had a midair in the pattern killing 5 people. The plane in the picture below was absolved of any wrong doing but it didn't really matter who was right and who was wrong.

5905725_600x338.jpg


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-planes21jan21,0,7798725.story
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Talking to him is the right thing to do, I would leave it at that.

Besides, there could just as easily be other VFR traffic in the area that isn't making reports, keeping your eyes open is the first priority.
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Agree with all, this is one where no harm, no foul; but a great learning event. That even should be handled at the lowest level involved, in this case that being the two parties involved. Live and learn from it, as Im sure both of you will do.

fholbert said:
Every pilot here with more than 100 hours has had the same thing happen to them. About 5 years ago a guy went 100' under me at Corona, so close I had no time to react. The guy was 100% illegal flying a left hand pattern when he should have been flying a right hand pattern. However, I was still responsible for see and be seen.
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And that is one of those weird cases where the "catch all" is see and avoid when in VMC, even though the other guy is doing an illegal pattern and you were flying the correct one. But as you say, post-midair, right and wrong just took a back seat.
 
MikeD said:
And that is one of those weird cases where the "catch all" is see and avoid when in VMC, even though the other guy is doing an illegal pattern and you were flying the correct one. But as you say, post-midair, right and wrong just took a back seat.
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There are sometimes legitimate reasons why aircraft may be flying an non-standard pattern. Glider ops, for instance, it is a necessity for instruction for students to fly a non-standard pattern for winds, or a rope break. And by convention at some fields, some operations may use a different pattern (jump planes for instance).

Keep your head on a swivel!
 
At least he came back over the frequency and said "I'm Sorry" Some wouldn't even do that....

Just drop it and move on
 
canadian_atc said:
Flying VFR recently in the clubs Diamondstar, on the way back we had to transition some of the schools published training areas. School/Club SOP's include the requirement to make position reports on the Club traffic frequency for the training areas. (There are five separate training areas surrounding the airport, plus one high performance block)
Click to expand...
You assume that anyone at your club/SOP has actually read said SOPs or other operating policy, remembers it, and applies it. ;)

My experience with it has been that these things are sent out, read once, acknowledge, thrown out and ignored, unfortunately. My FBO had wind limits and weather minima in the rental agreement that nobody paid any heed to and that the dispatching personnel typically did not know.

Long story short, I made a position report entering the training areas, and about 3 minutes later my passenger said "Wow that plane is really close!" as a Diamond Eclipse shot underneath us by around 200 feet.

I called again on the frequency, and got a reply from the aircraft whose excuse was "Sorry I forgot to make a report when I left the zone"

Now I know VFR is all about See and be seen, but considering this is SOP I'm not sure if I should do anything at all. When I informed the pilot we missed each other by so close he seemed very sheepish as if the point was driven home (it sure was for me!), I'm inclined to let it go, hoping he learned his lesson, not wanting him to get in any trouble as he is just a student, and I don't really want to be "That guy", at the same time I don't want him to think that making those sort of mistakes is a casual thing to do.

Would it make sense to formally report this to the club? Or would JC let this go?
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No paint traded and no evasive action required, right? I'd let it go.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
There are sometimes legitimate reasons why aircraft may be flying an non-standard pattern. Glider ops, for instance, it is a necessity for instruction for students to fly a non-standard pattern for winds, or a rope break. And by convention at some fields, some operations may use a different pattern (jump planes for instance).

Keep your head on a swivel!
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Exactly, and those circumstances definitely exist. I was referring to standard ops such that Frank was talking about, but you're completely right, there are definitely valid reasons you'll see planes in something other than the standard pattern. Often, helicopters....which are actually required to avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic in normal ops iaw 91.129(f)(2)...will be doing the same thing. Fully agree...keep your head on a swivel.
 
I have many SMS reports submitted to my system of this sort of thing happening. It's hard to see everything all the time and not the last time it will happen to you. The best thing you can do is learn and move on and try to keep your head on a swivel. I agree with the others, no need to make a stink about it with the other pilot.
 
Yep, whenever possible, I've tried to solve any situation with as little outside "help" as possible. It sounds like he learned his lesson, and you did too. Fly Safe.
 
I'd probably chalk it up as learning experience and move forward.

When it comes to traffic, a little paranoia is a good thing.


Sent from my free Obama Phone
 
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