What would you change about DHS & the TSA?

minitour said:
Well said.

-mini
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I fully believe too that 9/11 was a one-time Royal Flush in the poker game of airborne terrorism. All the aforementioned areas that were exploited are being addressed, the biggest one being the prevailing mindset of hijackings, both by law enforcement as well as onboard pax and crew.

But things like TSAs creation, security screening being now akin to checking into prison, armored cockpit doors, NG troops at the airport after 9/11 with empty M-16s, creation of DHS.......ALL that crap is/was nothing more than window dressing and does NOTHING to address the true problems that need to be addressed. Such as, airport security NOT having been the failure its accused to have been during 9/11.

And that's very unfortunate.

Especially from where I sit working for DHS and seeing the bloated bureaucracy it is, and is further becoming.
 
MikeD said:
The worst part is, TSA (and DHS for that matter) was a window-dressing knee-jerk reaction to 9/11, in order to make the people "feel safe" and that the governement was "doing something." Great. So create more goverment bureaucracy. And even worse, airport security DID NOT fail during 9/11. The hijackers went through security with items that were perfectly legal to carry at that time.
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You could replace TSA/DHS in that sentence with ADIZ/SFRA and it would be just as accurate. The aircraft that are most likely to be used in an attack are already under ATC, with a code. There's no reason to add GA to that.
 
What does it matter? They (the terrorists in a broad sense) have already won. They have us destroying ourselves from the inside. 9/11 was the link we clicked mistakenly, but the virus implanted and spreading internally is what is truly destroying us.

Personally, I don't think there is anything that can be done to stop it. The masses are too scared to stand up, and the leaders are too focuses on maintaining their post/seat/whatever to go against the grain and truly affect change. When in Rome, we fail as thee.
 
Cancel their existence. Or at the very least, not let them have any power beyond the metal detector.

Oh, and stop denying people access to a gate in an airport their company doesn't fly to.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Not with the door closed, but PBI asked us if we were private or commercial. When we responded private, they told us it had to be shut down as it interferes with the Geiger counter. I suppose they have some magic pixie dust that prevents the interference from commercial aircraft.
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Of course!

-mini
 
RICHARD5 said:
So if whatever idiocy coming down the pike were marketed better, you'd get onboard with it? That, as example, AOPA burned their membership by how they handled the LM FSS debacle or user fee issue doesn't dismiss them as being unworthy? So, like, they are totally worthy of your trust? What makes you think they would even listen? And your proposal to enlarge an already obese govt agency is okey dokey as long as the "many many more people" come from the right place, ie, the alphabet groups?
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No I don't think it would make all things better but at least then we, the pilot community, would have at least a little hope in some things that are totally wrong.

RICHARD5 said:
Hitler's jackbooted thugs received extensive training. No amount of training will overcome the bad strategery. Screw the training, change the mandate first. And who decides what is PRACTICAL? Do you trust them? Do you trust them to not develop their own agenda?
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No, but then again. I was hoping that everyone could put aside their petty complaining to give real constructive criticism whether the bureaucracy would listen or not. If all we do is complain nothing gets done. What would happen if someone got a twinkle that things could actually change. Whether in this administration, the next, or even 20 years down the road if I would be placed in charge of the TSA things would change. [/QUOTE]

RICHARD5 said:
My eyes are bleeding. I cannot believe I'm reading a pilot suggesting to pilots to come up with ways to help make the TSA "better". Oh little one, you have much to learn about the evil that resides in men's hearts.
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I understand power breeds itself. That doesn't mean that GOOD MEN & WOMEN haven't come and gone. I truly believe that we must learn that our family, as pilots, husbands, wives, sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, brothers, and sisters have to hold our own. If I can help change someone for the better because I can open up their eyes to something that they themselves do not see I would want to help them.

During the 1920's we turn to isolationism for good reason back then. The Great Depression. Then December 7th, 1941 happened. If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.

FlyChicaga said:
What does it matter? They (the terrorists in a broad sense) have already won....When in Rome, we fail as thee.
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I hope your wrong but my gut tells me otherwise. I can only live my life that I can influence somebody, whether in my generation or not, to help realize exactly what needs to change. Have the Isreali's lost because they have changed their lives?

MikeD said:
Especially from where I sit working for DHS and seeing the bloated bureaucracy it is, and is further becoming.
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Mike,
I thank you for your service as an USAF officer and working for DHS. Your insights into the world of government security are eye opening and educational to say the least. It seems more that we need to educate the citizens of this country how truly lucky we are and not let them forget. But how, when, and why will always elude those in power.

I also believe that you are correct and that passengers and crew alike will never allow that to happen again. But that is not to say that they won't be more prepared next time or ever. We live during a time that our forefathers never could have envisioned.

I don't think very many of our fathers and grandfathers that fought during WWII thought anything like December 7th would have happened let alone September 11th.

Never Forget. (Those two words say so much more than anyone could ever say.)
 
MikeD said:
With the planning, logistics, biding of time, distribution of personnel/assets, overall timing and coordination, training, observation of weaknesses that could be exploited such as mindset of hijackings etc, and overall patience involved.....these are factors that made 9/11 the absolutely brilliant and successful operation that it was, as seen from a purely tactical standpoint. One must study the enemy and his ways in order to effectively counter him.
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Absolutely on the point.

One of the biggest issues for me is treating terrorism as a law enforcement problem. LE has its place in the loop, but the big problem is LE is usually reactive by nature, not proactive, this is a much larger problem that should be handled proactively.

The folks that can and have dealt with it in the past are in the process of being neutered.... again. Intelligence, and not just domestic intelligence, is the only thing that will keep us safe, wherever a future threat may exist. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that there are not those out there looking for a weakness they can exploit, it may not be aviation, I tend to agree with Mikes analysis, but they are still looking.

TSA's fascination with GA is misplaced, even misguided, but for them (and I understand how they think) it's just a new venue for building the empire that is already too bloated.
 
mshunter said:
Anyone know of a rule/law the TSA has that allows this?
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None that I'm aware of. But, I've been out of the game for a year, they tend to make it up as they go:mad:.

Under federal search & seizure laws, searching without probable cause or permission outside of very specific parameters, would open those involved to civil and criminal penalties.
 
How "exactly" were they searching? Cars going onto a commercial airport, even on the GA side (in the SIDA) are currently under their jurisdiction.
 
BillErvin said:
Under federal search & seizure laws, searching without probable cause or permission outside of very specific parameters, would open those involved to civil and criminal penalties.
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You should know the TSA can do whatever they please at the airport, no way one of us would win this fight.
 
PGT said:
The TSA is here to stay. It won't EVER go away.
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minitour said:
That's a rhyme.

-mini
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But dead on - wasn't it?
Moot point discussion.
Recently drove behind a large black Crown Victoria with Virginia plates with the following text on the trunk:

"How's "Hope and Change" working for ya - buddy"? followed by a:

Walmart Smilie

The poster that said that the terrorists won on the day of 9/11 has some merit. We have become very weak as a nation and as fellow citizens. We seem to depend and thrive on "countermeasures" and it seems like just about everything under the sun is too hard to deal with. Except for big brother... maybe. Let the Gumnit do it and lean back.

It's quite scary to imagine what hands our armed forces are in right now. But, the alternatives would likely not have been better - nevertheless, we are headed right for a big kaboom, if we don't straighten up.

DHS & TSA would not be in excistence today, had they not successfully managed to keep people afraid and paranoid. So, raise the alert level, anytime you need to sweep some major problem under the rug.

We ate the cake - now it's time to pay for it & digest it.
 
Scandinavian13 said:
You could replace TSA/DHS in that sentence with ADIZ/SFRA and it would be just as accurate. The aircraft that are most likely to be used in an attack are already under ATC, with a code. There's no reason to add GA to that.
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Very true. Add that to the "window dressing" of the illusion of security we the public have been presented with for consumption.

Braunpilot said:
Mike,
I thank you for your service as an USAF officer and working for DHS. Your insights into the world of government security are eye opening and educational to say the least. It seems more that we need to educate the citizens of this country how truly lucky we are and not let them forget. But how, when, and why will always elude those in power.

I also believe that you are correct and that passengers and crew alike will never allow that to happen again. But that is not to say that they won't be more prepared next time or ever. We live during a time that our forefathers never could have envisioned.

I don't think very many of our fathers and grandfathers that fought during WWII thought anything like December 7th would have happened let alone September 11th.

Never Forget. (Those two words say so much more than anyone could ever say.)
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Thank you for your appreciation. I do the best I can with as open a mind as I can. The bolded part of your statement is especially true. It's an excellent point you make that the terrorists don't need to do another 9/11 in the same general style, there's other ways they're likely looking for. And they'll constantly adapt to us, as we attempt to adapt to them. I still think to this day that the six muslim imams that staged the prayer on the US Airways plane and got kicked off, were likely testing pax and possibly LE reaction. Who knows? Some sort of similar situation happened on an AirTran flight maybe a year or so ago.

BillErvin said:
Absolutely on the point.

One of the biggest issues for me is treating terrorism as a law enforcement problem. LE has its place in the loop, but the big problem is LE is usually reactive by nature, not proactive, this is a much larger problem that should be handled proactively.

The folks that can and have dealt with it in the past are in the process of being neutered.... again. Intelligence, and not just domestic intelligence, is the only thing that will keep us safe, wherever a future threat may exist. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that there are not those out there looking for a weakness they can exploit, it may not be aviation, I tend to agree with Mikes analysis, but they are still looking.

TSA's fascination with GA is misplaced, even misguided, but for them (and I understand how they think) it's just a new venue for building the empire that is already too bloated.
Click to expand...

Fully agree. Weaknesses in our systems (transportation, ports, airports, towns/cities) are likely getting probed daily. Maybe not in an openly noticable way, but I believe that terrorists are always looking for ways to sucessfully ply their trade. Agree on the LE relation to this insofar as where and how they fit in to the mix.
 
Well Damn, I just had a conversations with a friend of mine, he retired from the LAX Airport Police Dept a few years back. Didn't have any thing good to say about the new TSA boss.

This new guy came into the Asst. Chief Job at LAX from outside the agency with no real Airport security background. This is not an unusual thing for this kind of position, but I was hoping the guy at least had come up through the through the ranks a bit and maybe had a clue. Sounds like he's just another political hack. Oh well, time will tell, Hope I'm wrong:mad:
 
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