What to say and do to comments like these?

B767

B767

Well-Known Member
I was browsing another site and noticed comments like these:

"Look at all those snobby pilots on the picket line. I'd gladly fly for Delta for $40,000 a year if I had the ability to do so."

"Amen to that, 40k a year I would gladly fly for them!"

"Heh.. Me too.. "

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Are you serious? I'm trying to help you guys (current pilots and aspiring airline pilots the same) out here and had no idea what to say, so I said what I was thinking, which was hard because that's disgusting (I'm only 18 and can't stand thoughts like this)!
 
B767 said:
(I'm only 18 and can't stand thoughts like this)!
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Take a deep breath. There are as many opinions out there as there are people. Learn to let it roll off your back and you will enjoy the life ahead much more.
 
Too many folks out there have no idea what it takes to get to a place like Delta. They don't understand the hours of flying boxes in solo IMC or the years of working for peanuts at a regional. I am just about to start my first job at a regional myself and I will be the first to say to anyone that makes comments like that, that they really have no idea what they are talking about. Pilots are professionals just like doctors or lawyers (some of 'em anyways) and they should be paid as such. Not sure the point I am trying to make anymore, it just makes my blood boil when I hear stuff like that.
 
There are just those kind of people in the industry and its quite unfortunate. People under-value pilots and our training and what we put on the line every day so 'you and your family' have a nice ride and get to your vacation spot without incident.

Hell, there are people that would pay Delta $40,000 to be a first officer.

This is BY FAR, the most damaging mind set in the industry.
 
I think my strongest argument was the fact that ATC median pay grade is $102,000 (although I found a new number of $128,000 (excluding benefits and OT)). Now, this may be a little immature and I don't mean to offend anyone. But why should ATC make more then a lot of pilots? After all they provide a service to pilots. If you were a doctor you wouldn't want the nurse making more then you, right? I know it's a stretch though because ATC is extremely important, but I couldn't think of anything else.
 
I wasn't going to say anything until ATC was brought up. For those of you that don't know, that mindset that has pretty much destroyed the payscales for pilots as begun to reach its way to the ATC side of the industry. Currently, the ATC union and the FAA are at an impasse with their contract negotiations. The reason being is that the head of the FAA is confident that with many of the controllers able to retire soon that she can recruit new ones for siginificantly lower pay. We're talking 30-40% paycuts. Unfortunately the controllers are forbidden to strike so if the agency gets its way you'll see what happened to pilots happen to controllers. I am sorry but if that happens I will seek another career. It is my opinion that air traffic controllers deserve the pay that they get due to the high intensity high stress environment in which they work. The certainly shouldn't have their pay cut back to the normal GS scale that government secretaries and postal workers receive. I used to think this problem was just with pilots but now I see wages are being cut industry wide as the industry thinks it can find yokles who would do the job for free. This irritates me to no end!

Will
www.fairfaa.com
 
Thank you, I did not know much about the ATC situation, other then payscale...poor :sitaware:

Just out of curiousity...did all (except management), most, or just the pilots and FAs take pay cuts?
 
I'm a pilot, and I definitly wouldn't compare ATC to nurses(not that nurses have an easy job, my mom is a nurse). Their job is just as important as a Pilot's job. I for one do not think I would be able to do what a control does at an artcc or a major airport.

You're talking about a ton of multi tasking. I've had many times where all I had to do was cruise with the autopilot on while the controller is juggling 20+ airplanes all wanting to do different things. I'm not sure how they keep it all straight. I'm not saying that their job is more difficult, I just think it's on par with a pilot's and they deserve the pay that they get.
 
B767 said:
I was browsing another site and noticed comments like these:

"Look at all those snobby pilots on the picket line. I'd gladly fly for Delta for $40,000 a year if I had the ability to do so."

"Amen to that, 40k a year I would gladly fly for them!"

"Heh.. Me too.. "
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It helps to stay off Airliners.net!
 
greaper007 said:
I'm a pilot, and I definitly wouldn't compare ATC to nurses(not that nurses have an easy job, my mom is a nurse). Their job is just as important as a Pilot's job. I for one do not think I would be able to do what a control does at an artcc or a major airport.

You're talking about a ton of multi tasking. I've had many times where all I had to do was cruise with the autopilot on while the controller is juggling 20+ airplanes all wanting to do different things. I'm not sure how they keep it all straight. I'm not saying that their job is more difficult, I just think it's on par with a pilot's and they deserve the pay that they get.
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Isnt there a certain amount of airplanes a controller can have under their direction??
 
meritflyer said:
Isnt there a certain amount of airplanes a controller can have under their direction??
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The amount of airplanes or "traffic load" all depends on the skill of the controller. The more seasoned and experiencedthe controller will be able to handle a higher traffic load than a less experienced controller.

There are also controllers, referred to as Coordinators or Flow Controllers, which control the flow of traffic from sector to sector. There main job is to prevent the sector controllers from becoming overwhelmed with traffic.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
It helps to stay off Airliners.net!
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Wasn't A.net. My friend was telling me about these virtual airlines...and one of the ones he "belongs" to or whatever it is. Too bad I don't do the FS seen. But anyways it was on one of those forums. Damn FS pilots :sarcasm:

Greaper007 - I'm a pilot too ;)
 
I'll admit that I used to make the same comment. Then, I took a job at a commuter airline, which was subsequently relabeled a regional airline, and saw the reality that is the job of an airline pilot. I've never said anything like that since early January of 2000.

The biggest problem with countering comments like that is the job itself, because flying airplanes can also be a hobby. Very few people operate on patients on their computer, or on the weekends with a few good friends, just for fun. Same goes for the legal profession. Hence, the great misconception that we all work 1000 hours per year and make $150,000 to start.

What can you say to people like that? How about:
1) Are you willing to give up holidays until you turn 60?
2) Are you willing to be away from home for 20 days per month?
3) Are you willing to spend $20+ per day for food, each day at work?
4) Are you willing to work 12+ hours per day, 2-5 days per week, and get paid for less than half of it?
5) Are you ready to run the risk, twice each year, of losing your career due to a medical problem?
6) Are you ready to run the risk, twice each year, of losing your career because of a screwup in the sim?
7) Are you willing to risk losing your career, and your investment in it, every single day you go to work?

End each of those with "for $40,000 per year." It might help.
 
If you find the answer to this question it may give additional insight into controller's pay scales:

"What is the mandatory retirement age for an Air Traffic Controller?"
 
SteveC said:
If you find the answer to this question it may give additional insight into controller's pay scales:

"What is the mandatory retirement age for an Air Traffic Controller?"
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56 I believe but special waivers can be offered to age 61.

BOG - I too once said I would fly for that much a year too. However, being open-minded and reading these boards changed my mind.
 
B767 said:
I was browsing another site and noticed comments like these:

"Look at all those snobby pilots on the picket line. I'd gladly fly for Delta for $40,000 a year if I had the ability to do so."

"Amen to that, 40k a year I would gladly fly for them!"

"Heh.. Me too.. "

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Are you serious? I'm trying to help you guys (current pilots and aspiring airline pilots the same) out here and had no idea what to say, so I said what I was thinking, which was hard because that's disgusting (I'm only 18 and can't stand thoughts like this)!
Click to expand...


I truly believe...especially after flying heavy jets...that the talent required to fly one of these things in a complex environment safely...is something not everyone is going to be able to do. I don't think you could take a 1000 hour pilot and have them safely and competently operate a 500,000# machine. I'm rounding the corner of 9,000 hours toward 10k...had a typical career progression from CFI to freight to commuters to majors. After 6 years of flying 727s, 737s, and MD80s...I found the 767 to be a handful during engine out procedures and very gusty wind conditions. The descent planning is more tedious also...because the flap speeds are pretty low...and the airplane does not slow well in a descent. I think low timers and those with low talent would get killed.

How about the experienced guy that would take the job for 40K? Does he not have the talent to earn more money than that elsewhere? If not...you have to wonder about his aptitude for learning.

At the airline...it's not a go at "your own pace" learning environment. The airline expects you to complete the training event in minimum time. One to two extra sim periods to get you through and you are a serious financial liability to the company. And it's not to loose standards either. Fly it like a pro...on the syllabus schedule or go home. A busted checkride? You might get one extra chance...then once again...cya later.

Then there is the decision making and judgment ability of the pilot...and the ability to work under high stress. Ever taken a checkride with 2 company check pilots and the FAA observing? This happens when new instructors get checked out. It's high stress. While most experienced guys can fly the airplane okay...do they have the critical thinking skills necessary to analyze and safely carry out a situation to a logical conclusion. This isn't as easy as it's sounds. And there are many people out there without good solid logical decision making skills.


Bottom line...the skills required to operate like a pro in an airline are acquired slowly and steadily over time. Any shortcuts in the seasoning of a pro pilot and the links in the accident chain get stronger and more difficult to break. This is why I'm not a proponent of low time regional pilots.

It's hard to be proud of being in an industry that weeds out the strongest talent and experience in order to lower the payroll. But this does happen in other industries as well...someone being "overqualified" for the job. I've never understood this. How can you be "overqualified" for a job? It simply means that someone is not willing to pay you commensurate with your skill and experience level...and they are willing to sacrifice those attributes to save money.
 
I was having another discussion with an ERAU DB student who stated he'd fly airliners for 40k as well. I said why? Don't pilots deserve more? Listed the hardships of being a pilot yada yada. His response:

"Pilots are being paid what they're worth. With advancements in technology, pilots are becoming obsolete."

Thoughts?
 
It doesn't matter about those comments.

I take my trash out for free, why should the city pay someone $85,000 in the municipal sanitation department to do it?

:sarcasm:

:)
 
B767 said:
Wasn't A.net. My friend was telling me about these virtual airlines...and one of the ones he "belongs" to or whatever it is. Too bad I don't do the FS seen. But anyways it was on one of those forums. Damn FS pilots :sarcasm:

Greaper007 - I'm a pilot too ;)
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hey!! watch your tongue!
 
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