What should I look for when buying an airplane?...

GreenDayPilot

GreenDayPilot

Well-Known Member
So, I have a student who is interested in buying an airplane. He is interested in something he can use for travel around the country. He will have me as the pilot, I know insurance and other items will play into it... I'm not sure if I'm the most qualified person to help him shop around, but I figured I can tell him what I know. The problem is, I don't know much about buying an airplane of that size. He has already begun researching airplane he's interested in and it ranges from C414, PC12, CE500, etc... He wants to fly around with his family, so it would be something that has 4-7 seats. His budget is about 1 mil, so anything from 400k-1.1mil.

The questions I can think of are, What are the overhaul times for C414/Turboprop/Jet type of engines? What is the cost for an annual (given that nothing major is needed)? What does insurance cost for a C414 (I have 3000TT/300ME). I know I'd have to get training for every aircraft, and with jets, someone more experienced would have to come in and play in the left seat.

This is all beyond me, so any help is much appreciated! Thanks in advance! :-)
 
If he's into a high performance single, I would recommend the Spartan Executive. If he wants a twin, definately a Lockheed Lodestar. Anything less would not be masculine.
 
First thing you have to do is establish the "mission" profile that is going to covered for most (80-90%) of the flights.

Once you know the following:
- Number of pax
- Range (NM or flight time)
- Budget
- Aircraft's "base" airport (Can it support a small jet/turboprop/piston twin during most conditions...hangars...fuel...mx)

Then you can start to decide on the type of airplane you want to look at.

If he needs to carry the family on most trips and will rarely carry 7 pax, I'd look into the Twin Cessna market. They're fairly fast (200-215 kts) and cheaper to operate per hour ($375-500/hour) and would be a good "starter plane" if he's new to aircraft ownership.

Insurance for a Cessna 414A/421C, and a very nice one at that, will run about $5,000-$6,000/year...depending on type of flying, hull value and liability.

What is your multi time in? That might factor into it, but a good insurance broker will do that work for you...if they don't, find a new broker.

Make sure you know where you're going to keep the plane, so you can negotiate hangar/fuel/mx cost with the local shop/FBO/airport. This is very important in aircraft management.

You want to be the one stop shop for your student...and just like with being a CFI, seek out those who can answer the "I don't know" questions.

Feel free to PM me if you need more help or have more questions, I'd be happy to help you out!
 
WacoFan said:
If he's into a high performance single, I would recommend the Spartan Executive. If he wants a twin, definately a Lockheed Lodestar. Anything less would not be masculine.
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Lol! I think he's looking for something just a liiiittle bit on the newer side.

@SurferLucas- PM sent. Thanks!.. Oh, and the ME time is in PA44, BE9L, & EMB145.
 
What about the Mitsubishi MU-2/Marquise? They are very cheap right now.

Of course, you would need to comply with that SFAR to act as PIC in it.
 
Chyenne's are cheap right now. And a CJ1 in decent shape can he had for less that $500k. King Air 90-200 are also on the market for a decent price. The cessna Cabin series twins are nice, but some of the AD's can be a pain to comply with from what I hear.

BTW, I fly a PA31-350 with the Panther conversion, and it's a nice airplane. Maint. is easy, decent speed, comfortable ride, and it get's in and out of tight places fairly eaisly. If I hog on it, I can have it off the runway in 1000ft (1/2 of OKB's runway) and back in the air in about 1300ft when it's lightly loaded. I have also had it within a few punds of Max gross a few times, and it still performs well. And, it can be had for less than most other models out there.

http://www.controller.com/list/list...=NAVAJO+CHIEFTAIN+PANTHER&mdlx=exact&setype=1

You can take the money you save and put it in the fuel tank!
 
I would seriously consider a CE-441 Conquest II. A real 315kt airplane with the load and size you are looking for. Those garrett engines go to 5000hrs and are virtually mx free. Make sure you only look at planes that have had all the SIDS completed as well as the dash-10 engine conversions. They are amazingly efficient and also certified for single pilot. The range is also close to 2000nm, for real. I have flown them. They could be had for around the 1mm range right now too, which is amazing value. This will be very similar in performance to the smaller citations but for a fraction of the operating costs. Good Luck!
 
GreenDayPilot said:
So, I have a student who is interested in buying an airplane. He is interested in something he can use for travel around the country. He will have me as the pilot, I know insurance and other items will play into it... I'm not sure if I'm the most qualified person to help him shop around, but I figured I can tell him what I know. The problem is, I don't know much about buying an airplane of that size. He has already begun researching airplane he's interested in and it ranges from C414, PC12, CE500, etc... He wants to fly around with his family, so it would be something that has 4-7 seats. His budget is about 1 mil, so anything from 400k-1.1mil.

The questions I can think of are, What are the overhaul times for C414/Turboprop/Jet type of engines? What is the cost for an annual (given that nothing major is needed)? What does insurance cost for a C414 (I have 3000TT/300ME). I know I'd have to get training for every aircraft, and with jets, someone more experienced would have to come in and play in the left seat.

This is all beyond me, so any help is much appreciated! Thanks in advance! :-)
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As SurferLucas mentioned, the Cessna twins are great. We had a great deal on our 421 - and it was in good condition, good times. Also, insurance requirement times for the pilot are negotiable.

Be careful looking around on controller, etc - a lot of the prices are really high for the aircraft they're selling. Somethings may seem like they matter, but they don't really - and visa versa.


Also - IMHO a huge key to getting an aircraft is having an MX shop that isn't going to rip you off. For example, a shop that doesn't do hardly any 421s may come up with some crazy figure and include labor/items that aren't needed/don't need to be replaced during an annual - it happens all the time. Just because they quote you $20,000 for the annual doesn't mean that your airplane is getting expertly looked over.

Also, how much more would you be willing to pay for an aircraft that was on a 135, than one that was flown by a doctor with his private?
 
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WacoFan said:
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Cool airplanes Waco, but not practical. MX costs alone would eat most people for breakfast. Those airplanes should only be enjoyed by those who can appreciate them. And this guys boss just see's them as a tool in his tool box, nothing more. I'd hate to see one get used up in this role. The should be treated like a fine wine, only brought out on special occosaions.
 
Thanks a lot for all the replies. He seems to be pretty set on a twin Cessna.. after some research, it seems like the best bang for the buck. I'll be PMing a couple of you with some questions as we move forward... Again, thanks a million!
 
n57flyguy said:
Honestly, what is wrong with these? :dunno:
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No doubt they are cool planes, but good luck finding people who can work on either one when you are on a trip and something breaks. They built 625 Lodestar's. I've seen numbers indicating between 10 and 15 still being airworthy, and I've seen a couple "project" airframes for sale in the last year.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
No doubt they are cool planes, but good luck finding people who can work on either one when you are on a trip and something breaks. They built 625 Lodestar's. I've seen numbers indicating between 10 and 15 still being airworthy, and I've seen a couple "project" airframes for sale in the last year.
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I'm going to have a Lodestar someday. And a Lockheed Orion. And a Lockheed Air Express. And maybe a flyable replica of an Alpha. Lockheed used to build some kick-ass machines.
 
n57flyguy said:
Honestly, what is wrong with these? :dunno:
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Nothing, other than the fact that there are not to many left, and they should be preserved for future generations to enjoy. Putting an airplane like that back to work vs enjoying it as the history piece it is, is next to blasphemy. Don't destroy it by working it to death. They are like retired race horses. They should be relaxing in a climate controlled hanger and flown when the urge hits. Working planes get beat up on, and I bet parts are hard to find, if availible at all.

Edit to add: Beat something up that has no real historical signifigance.
 
mshunter said:
Nothing, other than the fact that there are not to many left, and they should be preserved for future generations to enjoy. Putting an airplane like that back to work vs enjoying it as the history piece it is, is next to blasphemy. Don't destroy it by working it to death. They are like retired race horses. They should be relaxing in a climate controlled hanger and flown when the urge hits. Working planes get beat up on, and I bet parts are hard to find, if availible at all.

Edit to add: Beat something up that has no real historical signifigance.
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There must be a healthy mix. Let them sit too long and seals and other stuff dry up. But I mostly agree. For a daily driver I'd probably do a Beech 18 - plentiful and MUCH more budget friendly feeding two R-985's than two big Wrights or Pratts (depending on the model of Lodestar). Probably I'd want a Howard 500 that had R-2800's.
 
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