What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems flying?

thehobbit

Well-Known Member
I'm currently doing the ifr training and when I start the commercial training I was thinking about buying a pair of nvg's to use to knock out some of the requirements needed to end up in ems flying. What are the training requirements to act as pic? I know that you need ground instruction and 3 takeoffs and landings including 3 hover tasks, but what else?
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

I'm currently doing the ifr training and when I start the commercial training I was thinking about buying a pair of nvg's to use to knock out some of the requirements needed to end up in ems flying. What are the training requirements to act as pic? I know that you need ground instruction and 3 takeoffs and landings including 3 hover tasks, but what else?

Don't jump too quick into NVGs, work your way into it, especially if new to rotary-wing and low-level ops. Ending up in EMS flying is something pretty far down the road for you right now. It'd be like a guy with 200 hours and working on his Commercial cert wanting to get his 737 type rating asap, in order to prep for his airline career. Work on getting some basic helicopter experience first.....spend some time at the crawl and walk stage before thinking you need to get to the sprint immediately.

14 CFR 61.31k

(k) Additional training required for night vision goggle operations. (1) Except as provided under paragraph (k)(3) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft using night vision goggles only if that person receives and logs ground training from an authorized instructor and obtains a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies the person completed the ground training. The ground training must include the following subjects:
(i) Applicable portions of this chapter that relate to night vision goggle limitations and flight operations;
(ii) Aeromedical factors related to the use of night vision goggles, including how to protect night vision, how the eyes adapt to night, self-imposed stresses that affect night vision, effects of lighting on night vision, cues used to estimate distance and depth perception at night, and visual illusions;
(iii) Normal, abnormal, and emergency operations of night vision goggle equipment;
(iv) Night vision goggle performance and scene interpretation; and
(v) Night vision goggle operation flight planning, including night terrain interpretation and factors affecting terrain interpretation.
(2) Except as provided under paragraph (k)(3) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft using night vision goggles only if that person receives and logs flight training from an authorized instructor and obtains a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the use of night vision goggles. The flight training must include the following tasks:
(i) Preflight and use of internal and external aircraft lighting systems for night vision goggle operations;
(ii) Preflight preparation of night vision goggles for night vision goggle operations;
(iii) Proper piloting techniques when using night vision goggles during the takeoff, climb, enroute, descent, and landing phases of flight; and
(iv) Normal, abnormal, and emergency flight operations using night vision goggles.
(3) The requirements under paragraphs (k)(1) and (2) of this section do not apply if a person can document satisfactory completion of any of the following pilot proficiency checks using night vision goggles in an aircraft:
(i) A pilot proficiency check on night vision goggle operations conducted by the U.S. Armed Forces.
(ii) A pilot proficiency check on night vision goggle operations under part 135 of this chapter conducted by an Examiner or Check Airman.
(iii) A pilot proficiency check on night vision goggle operations conducted by a night vision goggle manufacturer or authorized instructor, when the pilot—
(A) Is employed by a Federal, State, county, or municipal law enforcement agency; and
(B) Has logged at least 20 hours as pilot in command in night vision goggle operations.
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

Yeah that x 10 to what Mike said.

And do civilian helo pilots really buy their own NVGs? The ANVIS 6s we use cost about $11,000...
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

I hear what you guys are saying, but the school I'm going to offers a turbine transition course in a bell 206 with either nvg's or long line sling load training. I'm going to do the sling load course because I figured I could buy a pair of googles for a few grand, get some training and fly some night in them and then sell the googles. I don't know yet if the school will allow that, but if I and the instructor meet the FAR requirements then why not. The turbine transition training is offered after the commercial. The thing is the hours you have after commercial only comes to about 160, so when would you recommend training with nvg's?
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

Can't speak for how it is done in civilian training, but in the Army you start goggle training after about 100 hours or so. It would be after the equivalent of the PPL and Instruments, and then after a few weeks of basic combat skills. There is a significant academic portion and then a really structured flight syllabus led by instructors with hundreds and hundreds of goggle hours. After that, you wouldn't be a goggle PIC for a few years.

Like Mike said, flying helicopters low level under goggles is the most demanding mode of flight you can do. Make sure before you do anything that your instructor has the experience to teach you and make sure the ground school work is up to par. I'd look into this buying goggles yourself thing - it just doesn't sound right to me. It may be a common practice - I have no idea, but it sounds funny to me. Plus I don't know for sure, but I assume there are requirements on what kind of goggles you may use in flight which would make their purchase very expensive. Like I said, ANVIS 6s are north of $11,000.
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

Can't speak for how it is done in civilian training, but in the Army you start goggle training after about 100 hours or so. It would be after the equivalent of the PPL and Instruments, and then after a few weeks of basic combat skills. There is a significant academic portion and then a really structured flight syllabus led by instructors with hundreds and hundreds of goggle hours. After that, you wouldn't be a goggle PIC for a few years.

Like Mike said, flying helicopters low level under goggles is the most demanding mode of flight you can do. Make sure before you do anything that your instructor has the experience to teach you and make sure the ground school work is up to par. I'd look into this buying goggles yourself thing - it just doesn't sound right to me. It may be a common practice - I have no idea, but it sounds funny to me. Plus I don't know for sure, but I assume there are requirements on what kind of goggles you may use in flight which would make their purchase very expensive. Like I said, ANVIS 6s are north of $11,000.
Thanks for the replies, I'm going to go ask the school what kind of goggles they provide during their training.
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

Just walking with NVGs is difficult. You need some training to drive a truck with them. I had a hard enough time working in the back looking through those things, I don't even want to think about flying with them.

Seriously this sounds like a BS "training" course. There is absolutely no way you will be proficient behind goggles without a LOT more experience. As a new helo pilot, you are 5 years away from qualifying for a EMS job. When you get there, they will train you on the equipment they want.

Buying your own? If you have that much money spend it on your CFI-H.
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

Just walking with NVGs is difficult. You need some training to drive a truck with them. I had a hard enough time working in the back looking through those things, I don't even want to think about flying with them.

Seriously this sounds like a BS "training" course. There is absolutely no way you will be proficient behind goggles without a LOT more experience. As a new helo pilot, you are 5 years away from qualifying for a EMS job. When you get there, they will train you on the equipment they want.

Buying your own? If you have that much money spend it on your CFI-H.
Well that's just it, I'm not paying for any of this training, its all being payed for by the gi bill. I'm just trying to maximizes my hours used by flying at night during ifr to meet 135mins and I was thinking the same thing with nvg's during commercial training.
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

Most EMS companies require 100 hours of unaided night. They have to train you as part of 135 certificate policies. Let them pay for it. Another thing to think about is that like long line training if you get the course then don't use for a long time it will fade quickly. I would look into making sure you have your CFII Rotorcraft and then go from there. Good luck in training it is a tough tough market out there right now.
Shane
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

I have buddies that have just left Army aviation for the active side. They tell me the long line experience is what they are lacking. I hear on the Guard side of the house that long line experience is pretty common. Just think Crew dogs such as myself have logged over 750 hour of green air (because green air has better lift) and it doesnt count... :D
Good luck!
 
Re: What kind of night vision goggles do you use for ems fly

I'm currently doing the ifr training and when I start the commercial training I was thinking about buying a pair of nvg's to use to knock out some of the requirements needed to end up in ems flying. What are the training requirements to act as pic? I know that you need ground instruction and 3 takeoffs and landings including 3 hover tasks, but what else?


Buying a pair of NVGs would be virtually useless for you. You are 1750+ hours from EMS minimums and the money and time would be much better invested in useful training. Even if you bought your own set of goggles, what would your instructor use? Is your aircraft even compatible with NVG's? Goggles are really freaking badass for about the first 10 hours you use them. Wearing 10 pounds of crap on your head becomes a real headache after a while. Cherish the time you get to fly around with greater than a 40 degree field of view.

4-06-08a.jpg
 
The weight sucks but the advantages of flying with NVG's is priceless! Relearning how to see and interpret visual cues through the goggles takes time, and like everyone says, is a perishable skill, good luck with your training!
 
Id side with the others here, get all the unaided night time you can..thats what gets the jobs. Then let the person hiring you for that EMS job train you on goggles. CFI&CFII would be money MUCH better spent than on a set of goggles.
 
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