What is the REAL cost.....

Re: Oh my my....

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In my experience, after the first couple of years beyond getting their ratings it makes practically no difference where a pilot did his training. The guys that really want to do well and work hard are doing a good job whether they had "top-notch" academy training, or "crappy FBO" training.

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Disagree....the foundation in basic training is the most important part. It is almost impossible to turn around someones bad habbits formed by $hitty training. Ask any regional SIM instructor. They will tell you hands down they have fewer problems with the candidates that came out of structured, procedural oriented schools.

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Pilots learn more during the first few years of real world flying then they did during initial flight training, and the guys that want to do well can easily (I say again: easily) overcome any perceived disadvantage in quality of initial training.


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BS.... first compare apples to apples. In the beginning you are building the foundation. When you enter that first 135 job or line job you are honing or sharpening the sword so to speak. If the foundation has not been set properly and good piloting habits formed, then what are you sharpening? Bad habits?

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because real-world flying involves using the basic knowledge learned to that point and putting it into use.

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Partly true....was the basic knowledge learned taught well, absorbed well, performed well, and most importantly was everything taught to this person? If not, then what is being put to use?

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Ask any pro pilot and they'll tell you that experience means ten times as much as where someone got their ratings. Period. End of story.

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Yeah, just do not ask the pro pilot that is constantly bitching at his FO because of his bad habits or poor piloting abilities he learned at XYZ FBO...

Damn, why can't this kid do simple descent planning or get stabilized on the approach?
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ILS
 
Re: Oh my my....

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Not everyone needs such structure, though. Many can do just fine by reading the book and following a simple syllabus.

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Some can, if flying with a good thorough instructor and has a good mentor.

With respect to structure....I am talking about a complete, thorough syllabus where nothing is left out . Some like to call it 141.

I had a conversation with a gentleman from the Scottsdale FSDO last year. He inquired about my training. I responded with Flight Safety and degree with ERAU. He proceeded to tell me about converasations within the FAA where as they have considered not only making it mandatory to get an instrument rating before a PPL could be issued but also requiring all trainiing to be done 141 like at FSA, Riddle etc. Why do you think that is? Why do you think the pass rates are so much higher at these schools?

For the record, yes I know that "some" small schools are 141 also. Good to hear...

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But since you mentioned it, what do you think makes FSA better than DCA or CAPT? Or even ATP?

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I won't comment on DCA. They have done enough damage to themselves on their own. As for CAPT....Go to captiscrap.com. ATP? decent, but.....they try to accelerate the students through their program to fast and they do not have the chance to absorb the material as well.


The problem with most people that have come out of small FBO schools is they may have not ever experienced well structured thorough flight training so they simply do not know any better.

Before you jump all over that comment let me say that I, yes I, started out as a product of a small FBO school. After my PPL I went flying with my friend (UPS friend) in his amphib. He said well, you are a good stick and you have the basics but, I am disapointed in what they did not teach you. After asking him for advice on whether or not to continue with the school He recommended going to Flight Safety for the best training. He was right. AT FSA I took the PPL ground school as a refresher and I was amazed at how much was left out at the FBO. The PPL wasn't cheap either. Same price I would have paid at FSA. Go figure..

ILS
 
Re: Oh my my....

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Disagree....the foundation in basic training is the most important part....
BS.... first compare apples to apples....
Partly true....
Yeah, just do not ask the pro pilot that is constantly bitching at his FO because of his bad habits or poor piloting abilities he learned at XYZ FBO...


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<sigh>
I guess we could argue this all day long.

I'm am resigned to the thought that I will not change your mind about the importance (or unimportance) of where you train, just as you will not change my thoughts about the same issue. The one consolation that I leave with is that I am fairly confident that after another ten years of experience with pro pilots of all backgrounds, I will probably not have changed my mind. I'm a little more doubtful about your continued insistence about the importance of where you trained after 10 years of line flying, but only time will tell I guess.

Ciao, Shalom, Peace.
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Re: Oh my my....

I can't speak for other academies, but many of the students who came in with their PPL at FSA were surprised we checked the weather and did weight and balance. Granted where I'm working we don't check the weather either but we are flying turbine aircraft with de-ice and wx radar.
 
Re: Oh my my....

Fair enough.... Theres a whole lot of agreeing to disagree on this site. That is the beauty of the forums though..

ILS
 
Re: Oh my my....

"Granted where I'm working we don't check the weather either but we are flying turbine aircraft with de-ice and wx radar."

Yeah...planes with Deice and Wx radar are immune to weather. No need to check the wx. What ratings did you get at FSA and who do you fly for now? Was is ASA?
 
Re: Oh my my....

Let me rephrase that, no one else but me checks the weather. They have the attitude of 'what's the point of checking the weather, we have to go regardless' I got all my ratings at FSA, PPL through CFII. And I'd rather not say who I'm flying for right now other than it's a 135 charter operation.
 
Re: Oh my my....

Careful......you may lose your balance and fall while back peddaling.
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I thought you said you did not check the WX because your dispatch did it for you.
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That flight education wasn't cheap. Let's not waste it now. You were held to the highest standards at Flight safety, now impress your colleagues with those good piloting habits and get that damn WX.....
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ILS
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Re: Oh my my....

Yeah I feel my crew training isn't getting much application at this company, I'm just a radio jokey & do what the pilot doesn't want to do himself guy. But I'm getting multi-jet time with only 250hrs TT so I can't complain really.
 
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