WHAT is the DEAL with...

Boris Badenov said:
Rarely am I left without a snappy rejoinder, but I'm forced to simply say "WTF?"
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The events unfolded on July 26, 2008 when McCombs accepted the hand-off of KFS66, which appeared to have a stuck mike creating incomprehensible transmissions. Unclear to those in the Center, however, was that the co-pilot’s arm was all the while moving violently and uncontrollably on the other end as the captain worked hard to hand fly the aircraft.

Through the help of another pilot’s translation, Jay learned that the aircraft had declared an emergency. The plane was quickly changing altitude and McCombs immediately began to suggest closer airports, only to receive no reply.

Amid the chaos to translate the captain’s words, fellow controller Stephanie Bevins turns on the receiver so that she can now hear the pilot with her own headset. As she thinks through the symptoms in her head, she concludes that he must be hypoxic, a serious condition involving lack of oxygen due to pressurization problems. She knows immediately that they must descend the aircraft.

Following Bevin’s initiative, McCombs begins bringing the aircraft to the lowest altitude available in order to alleviate the possible oxygen deprivation. Unable to answer questions, the pilot is only able to respond to direct commands that the controllers now begin to voice. “Descend and maintain,” they repeat.

Remarkably, the captain’s inability to turn on autopilot requires him to have to work in order to fly the airplane, keeping him conscious and the plane airborne. The pilot’s words gradually become more understandable, and around 11,000 feet, he returns to normal and confirms that he had, indeed, been suffering from hypoxia.
 
So the cabin dumped AND they had a control failure? Or was the "control failure" induced by the hypoxia?
 
jtrain609 said:
So the cabin dumped AND they had a control failure? Or was the "control failure" induced by the hypoxia?
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No idea on the event but just from listening I think the latter, they report no control problems once starting down and "recovering". On a side note WTF was the co-pilot doing swinging his arm around violently? Is that an effect of hypoxia, loss of motor control?
 
Who knows. But the more important questions:

-Didn't they get an EICAS message, or some other annunciation that the cabin was going?

-Even if they didn't, why didn't they toss their masks on if any of the 4 guys they had on board had even thought, somewhere, in the back of their heads that they might be getting hypoxic?
 
jtrain609 said:
So the cabin dumped AND they had a control failure? Or was the "control failure" induced by the hypoxia?
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I tend to agree with wheelsup after listening again (in an entirely new light, I should add). That said, it's not inconceivable that if a bulkhead blew out or something, you'd get a control problem, too. It's one thing to check the cabin pressure to make sure you turned the bleeds on, but I think I might give it a more serious glance from here on out. Man, I'm very disappointed that my fun-times kvetching has been accidentally turned in to a worthwhile thread about real airmanship. ;)
 
I never understood it either until I got into that environment.

I'd say with the big iron (I define that by your max fuel is 2X the MRW of any RJ :bandit:) the level off could conceivably cause a problem if you are on a longhaul flight planned to land at your alternate right at the allowable alternate minimums.

Think about how often, and how far off, the winds aloft are on a 2 hour flight. Then make that a 10 hour flight, or even a 14 hour flight. Probably the worst is a 6 hour flight, after the winds aloft are updated. The extra fuel you burn at an intermediate altitude could cause you serious issues.

Our airplane calculates an "optimum" altitude (or the FE uses a graph on older types) to get the proper range on the airplane. If you are under or over your optimum by more than say 2000', you are burning extra gas you might need for an unforecast headwind.

Sure, it's easy to divert. However, once you get to a certain structure like 121, you get constraints where to go. Add a plane that you can't take into just ANY airport, but a limited number around the world, a divert is a different ordeal.

...that or the guy just thinks he walks on water.

I give it a 50/50
 
jtrain609 said:
-Even if they didn't, why didn't they toss their masks on if any of the 4 guys they had on board had even thought, somewhere, in the back of their heads that they might be getting hypoxic?
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I'm told it happens ridiculously fast at jet altitudes. Not so much a problem for us prop-types, but the time between "oh no, here it goes again...where's that stupid cabin alt gauge" and howling at the moon is apparently rather brief. Hard to get down on guys who were operating under extreme atmospherically-caused mental defect.
 
Polar742 said:
...that or the guy just thinks he walks on water.

I give it a 50/50
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Heh. Well, from my increasingly fallible memory, none of the guys I'm talking about had "heavy" in their callsign. But I'll put that under the ole hat for the next time I'm shooting bad-mojo waves at the radio.
 
Oh I'm aware, and in the -145 we'd get a master warning while the plane yells "CABIN!" at you. I mean that's if your ears popping didn't get your attention. As far as I'm concerned, checking what the cabin is up to isn't really in the thought process, it's "GET THE BLOODY MASK BEFORE WE'RE ALL DEAD!" I'd assume that even a classic 747 would give you a ding, or something? Anything? I'd venture to guess that grabbing that mask before thinking about anything else, and looking like a dufus in front of the rest of the crew is better than everybody being passed out.
 
jtrain609 said:
-Even if they didn't, why didn't they toss their masks on if any of the 4 guys they had on board had even thought, somewhere, in the back of their heads that they might be getting hypoxic?
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When you get utterly completely trashed are you thinking straight? Are you thinking AT ALL?

Keep in mind if this is a slow leak it's not like they would feel the effects instantly. KFS66 is a learjet I believe, not a 747.
 
jtrain609 said:
-Even if they didn't, why didn't they toss their masks on if any of the 4 guys they had on board had even thought, somewhere, in the back of their heads that they might be getting hypoxic?
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Because when you start getting hypoxic it's hard to process the realization you're starting to get hypoxic. ;)

When I went through the altitude chamber in the Army our instructors gave us a simple quiz to complete. They said to answer the questions on the paper until you start feeling hypoxic. They said once you start feeling the symptoms, stop the quiz and put on your mask. They also said if you finish the quiz before you feel any symptoms, just turn the quiz over and sign your name repeatedly.

When I came to (someone eventually put a mask on me), I was very alarmed to see my quiz in my hand with my ever-deteriorating signature running down the page. Apparently once I began to get hypoxic the instructions in my head became "finish the quiz at all costs!"
 
Boris, you are correct on your time of useful consciousness under a rapid decompression.

A scary listen. A great save by the controller.

KFS is Kalitta Charters. I think they fly Falcons and Lears. Sounds like there is a lot of noise on the transmission, but I think I heard a warning in the background.

However, if you slide into hypoxia due to a slow rise in cabin alt I think it'd be very hard to catch. Add to that, they are flying (presumably) at night, lowers your tolerance to hypoxia.

This is something that can catch any of us off guard.

I remember some years ago an ATA flight had the entire crew pass out as the FE inadvertently switched off the bleeds. One of the crewmemebers regained consciousness and saved the day. Lucky.
 
surreal1221 said:
So I take it ranting and raving about the economy and the future destruction of this country was too great?
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Just taking a break. I'll drink for another few hours, get "hypoxic", maybe go check the arsenal and canned goods, and return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Cheers.
 
surreal1221 said:
I just think you're a bit better at ranting and raving about the lunacies of the economy, central banks, and whatever notion of government there is than this.

Don't get emotional. :)
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Hee. Well, sadly, I still have to press the buttons and move the dog doo to get the paycheck which allows me to Prepare For Armageddon. Certainly, if you'd like to contribute to the "Boris Bunker Fund", it will only speed me away from peskily commenting on, you know, my job. Failing that, though, you're liable to see me splitting my time between my inspired "sky-is-falling" rhetoric and my less interesting observations about the mundanities of slipping the surly bonds, etc.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Hee. Well, sadly, I still have to press the buttons and move the dog doo to get the paycheck which allows me to Prepare For Armageddon. Certainly, if you'd like to contribute to the "Boris Bunker Fund", it will only speed me away from peskily commenting on, you know, my job. Failing that, though, you're liable to see me splitting my time between my inspired "sky-is-falling" rhetoric and my less interesting observations about the mundanities of slipping the surly bonds, etc.
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Why don't you kill two birds with one stone. Get a couple door gunners on that Mu-2 and offer to lay down suppressing fire from the plane while you deliver supplies to the civilian revolutionaries?

"Boris' Close-Air Support And Freight Drop Service" has a nice ring, no?
 
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