what is atp real price

The total cost does not include check rides and living expenses. Checkrides are 400-500 per, times 8 checkrides, depending on the program you choose. And any rechecks if you fail a checkride. The other thing is do not expect ATP to hire you as an Instructor. There website is a flat out lie they do not hire all the people that pass their program. If they don't like you for some reason or one of their instructors puts something negative in your file they will not hire you. If you get a flight instructor that has a bad attitude and puts comments in your file you are screwed. After spending all of that money. The plus side is that there are a lot of places that pay better than ATP. Its not necessarily the best place to learn how to fly either. They will screw you if they can, to get more money out of you.
 
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gunner said:
The total cost does not include check rides and living expenses. Checkrides are 400-500 per, times 8 checkrides, depending on the program you choose. And any rechecks if you fail a checkride. The other thing is do not expect ATP to hire you as an Instructor. There website is a flat out lie they do not hire all the people that pass their program. If they don't like you for some reason or one of their instructors puts something negative in your file they will not hire you. If you get a flight instructor that has a bad attitude and puts comments in your file you are screwed. After spending all of that money. The plus side is that there are a lot of places that pay better than ATP. Its not necessarily the best place to learn how to fly either. They will screw you if they can, to get more money out of you.
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I wanted to know why this guy training cost less than 60,000 I know all about ATP
 
gunner said:
The total cost does not include check rides and living expenses. Checkrides are 400-500 per, times 8 checkrides, depending on the program you choose. And any rechecks if you fail a checkride. The other thing is do not expect ATP to hire you as an Instructor. There website is a flat out lie they do not hire all the people that pass their program. If they don't like you for some reason or one of their instructors puts something negative in your file they will not hire you. If you get a flight instructor that has a bad attitude and puts comments in your file you are screwed. After spending all of that money. The plus side is that there are a lot of places that pay better than ATP. Its not necessarily the best place to learn how to fly either. They will screw you if they can, to get more money out of you.
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That is right. If you are a giant tool, you don't get hired. When I instructed I would not recommend students who:
-No call no showed for training. The ultimate selfish act saying I truly care about no one but myself.
-Showed up hung over. Yes this happened more than once.
-On multiple occasions,not studied the things I clearly asked them to. I like to think I am fairly understanding, but when you clearly are not studying a lot of the time, well it again shows a lack of the moral fiber a good IP should have.
-Constantly blame everyone, and everything, but yourself.

The vast majority of students get hired. The ones with the bad qualities above, do not. To me that is a good thing.

There are places that pay better. ATP is not the only place that will teach you how to fly. However, I was wanted badly to instruct for them because I wanted to fly multi engine and get a lot of time fast. I did not train with them though. Search for some of my other posts to see why I personally believe that to be a mistake now.
 
I wasn't talking about being a bad student, I was talking about getting screwed by an instructor that was a D-bag. LoadmasterC141 you are right if you are a lousy student you shouldn't be a flight instructor. But you can be a great student and if you don't suck up all the time when you are there they still will not hire you. You didn't even train there so how would you know anyways. The fact that they hired you is proof that they don't hire there own trainee's. You can be an excellent student and they still will not hire you. Out of a class of nine they only hired 1. You do the math. Most of them were great students.
 
-Showed up hung over. Yes this happened more than once.

One last thing, I had an instructor that showed up for flights hung over on more than one occasion. So they don't always hire people for their professionalism, usually just because they are good brown nosers. LoadmasterC141.
 
How long ago did you train there? Where did you train? did you go through stands? I got hired in early 2008, when things were very busy and the demand for IPs was high; they needed outside IPs to supplement there own graduates. In essence, I got very lucky. You are right I never trained there, but I instructed for almost 2 years.

From my experience, it is MUCH more rare to get a bad apple IP at ATP than elsewhere. Still though, if you have IP problems of any sort, you should speak up. It is your money. Kinda like eating a bad meal and complaining afterward because you were afraid to say something to the wait staff.

I have never seen a student need to do anything more than show up on time and prepared to get hired at ATP. Of course though, if the company is not hiring at all, like during alot of my tenure, it is what it is.
 
did
gunner said:
I wasn't talking about being a bad student, I was talking about getting screwed by an instructor that was a D-bag. LoadmasterC141 you are right if you are a lousy student you shouldn't be a flight instructor. But you can be a great student and if you don't suck up all the time when you are there they still will not hire you. You didn't even train there so how would you know anyways. The fact that they hired you is proof that they don't hire there own trainee's. You can be an excellent student and they still will not hire you. Out of a class of nine they only hired 1. You do the math. Most of them were great students.
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did you go to atp and when because they are currently hiring flight instructer
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
How long ago did you train there? Where did you train? did you go through stands? I got hired in early 2008, when things were very busy and the demand for IPs was high; they needed outside IPs to supplement there own graduates. In essence, I got very lucky. You are right I never trained there, but I instructed for almost 2 years.

From my experience, it is MUCH more rare to get a bad apple IP at ATP than elsewhere. Still though, if you have IP problems of any sort, you should speak up. It is your money. Kinda like eating a bad meal and complaining afterward because you were afraid to say something to the wait staff.

I have never seen a student need to do anything more than show up on time and prepared to get hired at ATP. Of course though, if the company is not hiring at all, like during alot of my tenure, it is what it is.
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i agree with you are you a pilot now
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
-On multiple occasions,not studied the things I clearly asked them to. I like to think I am fairly understanding, but when you clearly are not studying a lot of the time, well it again shows a lack of the moral fiber a good IP should have.
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Not studying makes a good student for the school and flight instructor. The training will take a lot longer and the instructor will get more money and log more hours while the student will build more time. Win-win.
 
madlion said:
did

did you go to atp and when because they are currently hiring flight instructer
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ATP Phoenix 08/09. They fired 4 instructors when I was there for being less than professional. Sleeping with students, one brought his girlfriend to work constantly got fired, one didn't know anything got fired. The best was the vice president of ATP fired one of the chief instructors over the phone when he was in Phoenix(he was at the airport and still fired him over the phone). Thats real professionalism. They also hired several instructors when I was there none of them had done ATP's program. My instructor showed up hung over several times. There was 4 or 5 instructors sleeping with students when I was there. Real Professional! One of the students tried to do a gear up landing in a Seminole on an MEI ride and passed(PASSED!!!) and then ATP hired her. I don't care who you are that is a crap. ATP tries to say how great they are but the fact is that they hire whoever they want and they are not always good instructors. That being said there were several amazing instructors when I was there that would bust their humps to help you out. But there were a lot of lousy instructors to. Their website is full of lies and BS. You are the paying student and you can't choose what CFI school you go to. And Jacksonville(The Company Headquarters) will not listen to any complaints, will not return your calls or emails, once they have your money, will not give you the time of day. When I was there the CFI school in Las Vegas was a joke. Frank Varcelona was the worst instructor in the history of flight. A total POS. You had to know all the material when you went to the school because you were not going to learn anything from that POS. He wore a track suit to work everday. Real Professional! He has since been fired, go figure. And for the finally of my rant, I was a student who worked my tail off to be a good pilot, never made excuses, because I love to fly. ATP is all about the Money and they don't give a **** about you or your career as a pilot as long as you give them money.
 
I cannot speak for PHX. Never been there. The new manager worked with me at GKY and he is one of the best, most professional, individuals I have ever met. I don't expect anything like you mention to happen under his reign.

At GKY during 2009, very few people got hired. There was very little going on, unlike today. The other things you mention, I never saw anything like it.

Also, Frank actually retired. Heard mixed reviews about Frank. Definitely seemed tough, but a lot seemed to respect him for that too.
 
ATP may have respected frank but none of the students did. He was a lousy person not to mention a lousy CFI. I have not met anyone who respected Frank, the manager a PHX didn't even like him, and never said anything good about him. From what I hear ATP told him to leave or they would fire him. He probably had to retire because no one would hire him. He tried to become a DPE but the FAA didn't want anything to do with him. The only reason ATP liked him was because he failed so many students that had to pay more money to take the CFI course again. He was not fair at all. Would fail people just because he didn't like them. The only reason he signed me off was because if he didn't the other CFI at North Las Vegas would. Passed my MEI with flying colors, DPE said I was a great pilot. Frank talked crap about me to the DPE before the checkride, that shows a lot of class. I can't proove that, but the way the DPE acted it seemed odd. Especially after I passed the DPE sounded really suprised when he said I was a really good pilot. I was so happy that I didn't ask what Frank had told him but I should have. It is a good thing that Frank retired though, he was a disgrace to the profession.
 
Loadmaster what airline do you work for?
LoadMasterC141 said:
I cannot speak for PHX. Never been there. The new manager worked with me at GKY and he is one of the best, most professional, individuals I have ever met. I don't expect anything like you mention to happen under his reign.

At GKY during 2009, very few people got hired. There was very little going on, unlike today. The other things you mention, I never saw anything like it.

Also, Frank actually retired. Heard mixed reviews about Frank. Definitely seemed tough, but a lot seemed to respect him for that too.
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gunner said:
ATP may have respected frank but none of the students did. He was a lousy person not to mention a lousy CFI. I have not met anyone who respected Frank, the manager a PHX didn't even like him, and never said anything good about him. From what I hear ATP told him to leave or they would fire him. He probably had to retire because no one would hire him. He tried to become a DPE but the FAA didn't want anything to do with him. The only reason ATP liked him was because he failed so many students that had to pay more money to take the CFI course again. He was not fair at all. Would fail people just because he didn't like them. The only reason he signed me off was because if he didn't the other CFI at North Las Vegas would. Passed my MEI with flying colors, DPE said I was a great pilot. Frank talked crap about me to the DPE before the checkride, that shows a lot of class. I can't proove that, but the way the DPE acted it seemed odd. Especially after I passed the DPE sounded really suprised when he said I was a really good pilot. I was so happy that I didn't ask what Frank had told him but I should have. It is a good thing that Frank retired though, he was a disgrace to the profession.
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I think you're full of it. Did you not get signed off for your initial the first time around?

Frank was/is a strange dude, but he had a tough job that not many people can do. While he was a little off the wall and not the most friendly person, he did a good job of imparting the knowledge required to become a CFI in 2 weeks. I can respect that, and I know ATP did not offer to fire him if he didn't retire. I know a LOT of CFI's who went through his class (myself included) who would all say the same thing.

Did you ever have the privilege of knowing/flying with R.T. in CRG? now theres another over the top character from ATP, again, he did his job well and I respect him for it. Ill never forget being checked out as an ATP instructor with him... lol
 
How did he have a tough job working a few hours a day for two weeks, give me a break, he was a lazy piece of crap that didn't do anything. We were expected to know all the material before we went to the class. Yah I got signed off the first time around but alot of other people got screwed because Frank was a lousy piece of crap. He kicked one guy out of the class for helping one of the other students, I take offense to that. Are you dilutional, you respect a worthless piece of crap, that says alot about you. Frank is the most unprofessional person I have ever met in aviation. <edited to remove personal attack>

SIUav8er said:
I think you're full of it. Did you not get signed off for your initial the first time around?

Frank was/is a strange dude, but he had a tough job that not many people can do. While he was a little off the wall and not the most friendly person, he did a good job of imparting the knowledge required to become a CFI in 2 weeks. I can respect that, and I know ATP did not offer to fire him if he didn't retire. I know a LOT of CFI's who went through his class (myself included) who would all say the same thing.

Did you ever have the privilege of knowing/flying with R.T. in CRG? now theres another over the top character from ATP, again, he did his job well and I respect him for it. Ill never forget being checked out as an ATP instructor with him... lol
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