What is and what isn't IMC?

Cutlass1287

Cutlass1287

Well-Known Member
What is and what isn\'t IMC?

Does anybosdy know where I can find a good definition of IMC? I know that it is commonly considered less than 1K feet and/or less than 3 miles, but what about flight at night over the ocean when you cant see anything? Is that IMC? I am trying to find a definition in the FAR.
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

Night over the ocean is not technically IMC, however for all practical purposes it is (because you have no visual references). Personally I think you have to be mad to fly at night over the ocean without an instrument rating and yet it is perfectly legal to do so.

Take a look here : FAR Part 91.155
http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-155-FAR.shtml
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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Personally I think you have to be mad to fly at night over the ocean without an instrument rating and yet it is perfectly legal to do so.

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Angry mad, or Crazy mad? Or both? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

Pilot would have to be crazy mad. Could make the SAR guys Angry mad........either way, lots of madness. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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Night over the ocean is not technically IMC, however for all practical purposes it is (because you have no visual references).

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So, what's the definition of IMC??
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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So, what's the definition of IMC??

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Thats what I would like to know. Who says night over the ocean isnt IMC?
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

IMC is anytime the weather is less than VFR (variesm, depending on airspace, time of day, etc).
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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IMC is anytime the weather is less than VFR (variesm, depending on airspace, time of day, etc).

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That's like defining sex as "the lack of abstinence".
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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Does anybosdy know where I can find a good definition of IMC?

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The only definiton of IMC is in far 170... it's basically what Lloyd said.
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but what about flight at night over the ocean when you cant see anything? Is that IMC?

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Nope, it would be VMC (also in far 170). To log 'actual' you need:

-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not defined in the fars).

So... if you think instrument flight conditions means you can't see anything, go ahead and log actual.
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

So how would airlines and the FAA view logging actual when the weather is clear and a million?
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

There isn't really a varation on actual... it either is, or it's not.

If you'd log an entire night flight actual just because you have the ocean out the left window (but a city out your right)... then you're breaking the regs. If you seriously can't tell whether your in a cloud or not then you can log it. Just use common sense.

Another example is being 10' below a cloud in class E under IFR. You're technically in IMC (weather less than VFR). But you have a horizon so you're not in instrument flight conditions (i.e., you don't need to fly soley by ref to instruments) and you can't log it as actual.
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

Cool.....but we still havent come up with a good def. of IMC. FAR 170 does define it as "weather conditions below the minimums prescribed for flight under Visual Flight Rules (VFR)."

But note this: "For purposes of this subpart—"

So how about, IMC is anytime controlled flight with reference to anything outside the cockpit is not possible.
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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To log 'actual' you need:

-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not defined in the fars).

[/ QUOTE ]

And I always thought you only needed a nice Bic Pen... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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So how would airlines and the FAA view logging actual when the weather is clear and a million?

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The question should be: "So how would airlines and the FAA know that I was logging actual when the weather was clear and a million?"

The answer: They wouldn't... 99% of what is logged in a logbook is based on the "Honor System"... Pretty much no one could or is going to look back to flights years earlier and try to cross reference WX conditions and such...

Simply isn't going to happen...

Log what you want to log, you just have to live with yourself...
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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So do you log actual time when you cant see in any direction as actual?

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My logbook is nearly 2 years behind... Honestly, I'm not even 100% sure which box it is in...
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

A little off topic but I would like to share something a pilot in my local airport told me. Some pilots here sometimes crash in the ocean because at night over the ocean they think that the ship lights are stars and become disoriented.
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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...share something a pilot in my local pilot told me...

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Huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

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...share something a pilot in my local pilot told me...

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Huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Sorry, typed too fast. Error fixed.
 
Re: What is and what isn\'t IMC?

I know Brian, I'm sorry. I was just joking around with you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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