Kestrel452
Well-Known Member
I saw that a few schools I applied to do not have a control tower at the airport. Radio procedures are an important part of training. Is not important that the university airport has one?
What is a college flight program without a control tower?
- Thread starter Kestrel452
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Kestrel452
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
Anyone care to share why they think what they think on this issue?
Anyone care to share why they think what they think on this issue?
ScoutFlyer
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
I don't believe that the airport having a control tower is a big issue. You are correct that radio procedures are very important. However, in training you will fly to many other airports on training flights where you would be able to gain experience with a tower. In my opinion, it is more important to master radio technique at a non-towered field because there isn't anyone watching over you and most airports in the U.S. are non-towered. If you aren't comfortable with dealing with a tower, make sure that your cross-country training takes you to towered fields. Other than that, it does make it nice to have a tower if the airport is busy with a lot of student training, but that's more of a conveniece issue than a quality issue.
I don't believe that the airport having a control tower is a big issue. You are correct that radio procedures are very important. However, in training you will fly to many other airports on training flights where you would be able to gain experience with a tower. In my opinion, it is more important to master radio technique at a non-towered field because there isn't anyone watching over you and most airports in the U.S. are non-towered. If you aren't comfortable with dealing with a tower, make sure that your cross-country training takes you to towered fields. Other than that, it does make it nice to have a tower if the airport is busy with a lot of student training, but that's more of a conveniece issue than a quality issue.
BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
I've seen or shall I say heard many tower-learned pilots come to our non-towered field and make and absolute "that guy" out of themselves. I've also had students ask me to go with them because they aren't comfortable with towers. Personally, maybe it's because how I was taught, I would opt for a non-towered field and have to learn to make my own decisions as opposed to being told what to do. I know that sounds like a cliche, but I've seen it and it seems to hold true.
Another nice thing about not having a tower is you get in and go, no long taxi's, not near as much holding short, basically less time spent on the ground, also, more freedom over/around the field, etc. I think it's easier to learn to fly to a towered airport than it is to learn to make the right decision.
Either way you will end up flying to both, so it really doesn't matter.
I've seen or shall I say heard many tower-learned pilots come to our non-towered field and make and absolute "that guy" out of themselves. I've also had students ask me to go with them because they aren't comfortable with towers. Personally, maybe it's because how I was taught, I would opt for a non-towered field and have to learn to make my own decisions as opposed to being told what to do. I know that sounds like a cliche, but I've seen it and it seems to hold true.
Another nice thing about not having a tower is you get in and go, no long taxi's, not near as much holding short, basically less time spent on the ground, also, more freedom over/around the field, etc. I think it's easier to learn to fly to a towered airport than it is to learn to make the right decision.
Either way you will end up flying to both, so it really doesn't matter.
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
There's a whole lot more to it than the airport being towered or untowered, just keep that in mind.
You'll fly into both toered and untowered both during your training and after your training. Therefore, it's important to know how to operate in both situations.
This is why I like OU. I'll be flying out of KOUN, shoot some approaches at Will Rogers (with all the airliners), then go over to Wiley Post (untowered).
There's a whole lot more to it than the airport being towered or untowered, just keep that in mind.
You'll fly into both toered and untowered both during your training and after your training. Therefore, it's important to know how to operate in both situations.
This is why I like OU. I'll be flying out of KOUN, shoot some approaches at Will Rogers (with all the airliners), then go over to Wiley Post (untowered).
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
I'd say it depends on how big the college is. I did my primary/instrument training at an FBO at an uncontrolled field under the auspices of my community college's aviation program. Some 4-year universities also have similar arrangements, CWU and Midstate Aviation being the first to come to mind. The student pilot traffic level, in comparison with all of the other operations at the airport, was low enough that I never felt that there was a major safety issue. A large aviation program like UND has, however, would be a disaster at an uncontrolled field because of the large number of student pilots buzzing around without ATC playing traffic cop. You'll learn the proper radio procedures for both towered and untowered airports from your instructor and from your ground school, so that's a non-issue.
I'd say it depends on how big the college is. I did my primary/instrument training at an FBO at an uncontrolled field under the auspices of my community college's aviation program. Some 4-year universities also have similar arrangements, CWU and Midstate Aviation being the first to come to mind. The student pilot traffic level, in comparison with all of the other operations at the airport, was low enough that I never felt that there was a major safety issue. A large aviation program like UND has, however, would be a disaster at an uncontrolled field because of the large number of student pilots buzzing around without ATC playing traffic cop. You'll learn the proper radio procedures for both towered and untowered airports from your instructor and from your ground school, so that's a non-issue.
Prino
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
FAA Identifier: PWA
Airport use: Open to the public Activation date: 02/1943 Sectional chart: DALLAS-FT WORTH Control tower: yes ARTCC: FORT WORTH CENTER FSS: MC ALESTER FLIGHT SERVICE STATION NOTAMs facility: PWA (NOTAM-D service available) Attendance: CONTINUOUS Wind indicator: lighted Segmented circle: yes Lights: DUSK-DAWN
WHEN ATCT CLSD ACTVT HIRL RY 17L/35R & MALSR RY 17L - CTAF. Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport)
might want to take another look at your AFD
FAA Identifier: PWA
Airport use: Open to the public Activation date: 02/1943 Sectional chart: DALLAS-FT WORTH Control tower: yes ARTCC: FORT WORTH CENTER FSS: MC ALESTER FLIGHT SERVICE STATION NOTAMs facility: PWA (NOTAM-D service available) Attendance: CONTINUOUS Wind indicator: lighted Segmented circle: yes Lights: DUSK-DAWN
WHEN ATCT CLSD ACTVT HIRL RY 17L/35R & MALSR RY 17L - CTAF. Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport)
Prino
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
go down to purcell if you want an non-towered field. or dj perry. thats where i worked on STOL and non-towered radio calls. just outside OUN's airspace and you dont stay out of okc's airspace.
hotice
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
It is easier to teach a new student at an airport without a tower. That is just to much for a new student to handle. Besides it is less busy to be able to do pattern work, and first solos. The college program that I went to did not have a tower. We would just got to airports close by that had control towers.
It is easier to teach a new student at an airport without a tower. That is just to much for a new student to handle. Besides it is less busy to be able to do pattern work, and first solos. The college program that I went to did not have a tower. We would just got to airports close by that had control towers.
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
I'm not knocking untowered airports, just saying that you can get along fine as a student at a towered airport.
I have to disagree. I've done all my training out of a Class D airport so far and I haven't been stressed in the least. There's been 3-4 people in the pattern, but it's been completely fine.
I'm not knocking untowered airports, just saying that you can get along fine as a student at a towered airport.
poser765
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
I wouldn't think it should be a major factor in deciding on a college. Where i teach now, there about three towered fields within 60 miles not counting any in dallas.
There was talk of making our airport Class D, and i'm not really sure what i think about it. At first I was excited but the more I thought about it the more a hassle it seems like it would be.
We aren't a HUGE school by any means, but on a good day we can field a dozen airplanes. Probaly about 90% of the traffic at our field is from our school which means we hace a pretty efficient system worked out here. so 5 or 6 planes in the pattern may be bussy, but never scary. We know what we and the others are doing. Now throw a control tower into that and it all changes. Our habbits and rountines that we all know and abide by now fall to the whim of the tower. nah, I think I would rather stay uncontrolled.
I wouldn't think it should be a major factor in deciding on a college. Where i teach now, there about three towered fields within 60 miles not counting any in dallas.
There was talk of making our airport Class D, and i'm not really sure what i think about it. At first I was excited but the more I thought about it the more a hassle it seems like it would be.
We aren't a HUGE school by any means, but on a good day we can field a dozen airplanes. Probaly about 90% of the traffic at our field is from our school which means we hace a pretty efficient system worked out here. so 5 or 6 planes in the pattern may be bussy, but never scary. We know what we and the others are doing. Now throw a control tower into that and it all changes. Our habbits and rountines that we all know and abide by now fall to the whim of the tower. nah, I think I would rather stay uncontrolled.
CN94559
New Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
I personally think I wouldn't be as good of a pilot if I flew out of an untowered airport throughout my training and this is why...
If when you're developing you're basic skills as a pilot, one is radio skills. If you're just used to having to call out positions on CTAF you don't get used to having to make quick changes or extending as much as you would if you're flying at a towered airport. You get told many more things to do and you get comfortable with it really fast. If you're flying at a non towered airport for your first say 2-5 hrs you're just starting to get comfortable flying the plane, now your instructor tells you you have to go somewhere where an ATC is gunna tell you what to do and you're gunna have to be able to talk to them? Stressfull? I think so. Not only that, as you're getting later into your training you get to the point of where you need to be able to fly into a busier airspace (busy Charlie or a Bravo) you're used to not talking to anybody then you get thrown into a situation like that? If you're not used to talking to a Delta controller, how in the world are you gunna be able to operate around the big jets, the controller talking at 100mph giving you many instructions really fast? You're used to hearing "cessna XXX is on final runway XX at wherever" then you go to "AA1882 turn left heading 150 decend and maintain 1,700 cleared ILS app runway 17C into DFW break Cessna XXX traffic is a MD-88 3 miles ahead and to your left report it in sight" what would a student who hasn't just heard "Cessna XXX runway XX cleared to land" gunna do?
/rant.
I personally think I wouldn't be as good of a pilot if I flew out of an untowered airport throughout my training and this is why...
If when you're developing you're basic skills as a pilot, one is radio skills. If you're just used to having to call out positions on CTAF you don't get used to having to make quick changes or extending as much as you would if you're flying at a towered airport. You get told many more things to do and you get comfortable with it really fast. If you're flying at a non towered airport for your first say 2-5 hrs you're just starting to get comfortable flying the plane, now your instructor tells you you have to go somewhere where an ATC is gunna tell you what to do and you're gunna have to be able to talk to them? Stressfull? I think so. Not only that, as you're getting later into your training you get to the point of where you need to be able to fly into a busier airspace (busy Charlie or a Bravo) you're used to not talking to anybody then you get thrown into a situation like that? If you're not used to talking to a Delta controller, how in the world are you gunna be able to operate around the big jets, the controller talking at 100mph giving you many instructions really fast? You're used to hearing "cessna XXX is on final runway XX at wherever" then you go to "AA1882 turn left heading 150 decend and maintain 1,700 cleared ILS app runway 17C into DFW break Cessna XXX traffic is a MD-88 3 miles ahead and to your left report it in sight" what would a student who hasn't just heard "Cessna XXX runway XX cleared to land" gunna do?
/rant.
Sidious
Well-Known Member
Re: What is a college flight program without a control tower
Initial training it doesn't make a difference. I take all my Private students to untowered fields so they can make the choices they need to in order to become safe pilots. You can work on the radios anywhere. Im sure there is a towered field near the airports you are looking at.
Initial training it doesn't make a difference. I take all my Private students to untowered fields so they can make the choices they need to in order to become safe pilots. You can work on the radios anywhere. Im sure there is a towered field near the airports you are looking at.