What happens if a student fail's a checkride twice?

The student and/or the CFI should think about a different line of work.
On a serious note if the student just locked up on the flying due to nerves... well, maybe he/she should think about not flying.
If there were oral or flight deficiencies the CFI should think about a different line of work and the student should find another CFI.
 
Blackhawk said:
On a serious note if the student just locked up on the flying due to nerves... well, maybe he/she should think about not flying.
If there were oral or flight deficiencies the CFI should think about a different line of work and the student should find another CFI.
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What a wonderfully put, catch-all response to a wide variance of circumstances that is....:whatever:
 
Had my first student failure yesterday. Nerves got him, and some brain farts. I am just worried about a second failure and what would happen to me. He was well within PTS standards during his training. But was just all over the place on the checkride.
 
I've *heard* (but never confirmed) that if your student fails the same checkride 3 times it raises a flag for a 709 ride for the CFI.

One time I saw the situation came up when I was a CFI at ATP with a student failing twice in a row, the student flew/did a little ground school/was signed off by another CFI. They ended up passing so I never saw anything more than that.
 
Nothing on try #2. On try #3 you could be in for a 709 ride if they fail that one. Whether it's nerves or not, the FSDO won't care. So if they fail again, make them switch CFI's.


Edit: My old chief watched a guy get his CFI yanked untill he could pass the 709 ride from a tripple bust of a student. He was out of work for a while, so watch your butt.
 
Don't know if a 709 would necessarily come into play, as maybe the guy can fly fine but just can't teach. Would depend on the particular circumstance.
 
sadly I just had this happen. Student bought engagment ring in the morning planed on taking his oral in the afternoon and proposed to his girlfriend that night.:drool: Well the oral didn't go very well. 6 months for a BFR was one of his answers. Did it the next week and he did great. During the flight he did great except during his diversion he gained 300 ft. while putting info into the gps, turning ect. Kind of a bum thing to fail a checkride on but it is in the pts. so anyway it is possible for what I thought was a good student to fail the same checkride twice. So now im 10 out of 11 on students passing. Or am I 10 out of 12 depends on how you look at it i guess.

PS he never told me he was planning on proposing:eek:
 
When students fail rides it should be clear to the examiner wither the guy failed because of nerves or confusion or gross negligence or incompetence on the CFI's part. I had an inspector sitting in on one of my students practicals the other day and the kid imploded into a pile of molten brain. He was throwing out some really nutty things.

The inspector talked to me after, she remarked, wow, that's not your normal work! He just fell apart in there. She new it wasn't my gross incompetence that caused him to mess up.
 
The student and CFI just might not work well together. If my student busted twice that would tell me that something isn't clicking between us, and that maybe a different perspective would make something click, not necessarily that there's deficiency in my teaching or their learning ability. Also, the student might be under a lot of stress outside of training which might affect their performance during the checkride. I busted one stage check during primary training twice because my head was not in the right place due to personal issues that were going on. I probably shouldn't have been flying at that time. Outside of that stage check, I went on to get my Instrument, Commercial, CFI and II without any issues during any of the checkrides.
 
did they bust the same thing twice?

if so, may want to examine teaching style. if not, maybe send the student up with anotherr cfi to get a second opinion.

then again, 3rd time is the charm so the saying goes...
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
It is a 709 on your flight instructor ticket, not your pilot ticket.
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My bad, I read the question wrong.....I thought we were talking a CFI candidate who fails a checkride twice.

I see we're talking about his student now. Ok, I'm with you all now.
 
I've had a student fail a CFI checkride 2 or 3 times (hard to remember how many times he failed with all the wx cancellations and rescheduling by the safety inspector. His checkride process ended up being like 9 months). He failed on the ground every time. We would do ground. He would get it and retain it. He would then go up to the feds and go stupid. Once he finally got ground done he nailed the flight. I never heard anything from them questioning my abilities.

I have a really hard time judging a cfi by his failed rides he has recommended. There is simply way to much stuff that can happen that is so far outside of the instructors realm of control for it to be any useful measurement of skill.

I had a bad ass instrument student bust because the examiner told him to go direct to Bonham airport. He mistakenly pushed the nrst vor and not the field. Pretty sure he knew how to work the GPS and knew the difference between a VOR and an airport.

hehe I also had someone bust a cfi ride because they forgot to put the gear down during an emergency approach to a field. He used to get real nervous on checkrides. Maybe he still does...who knows...
 
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