What does "established" mean?

It means the controller has given up on either you or their job and is leaving the rest up to you or the tower controllers who they are about to hand you off to.
 
mikecweb said:
Wha? Within 10 degrees is considered established?
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That's what my old instrument instructor said, back in the day, for a VOR approach. The ILS isn't 10 degrees wide, so that would work. Law of primacy man! It bet be wrong for all I know.

I think his point was basically if the needle is alive and your within 10 miles, you're established. Honestly I haven't put much thought into it. I just fly the approach, and call when I feel established...
 
I totally thought the answer to this was going to be something like, "When you feel like your next ten years could be what you're currently doing, or you have a home, or happily married with a kid on the way and nothing but growth at your employer..."

Then again, I was also one of the ones who read just the thread title to Seggy's "I'm Curious" post and had other suspicions.

Sorry for the slight hijack, lots of good information about IAPs here, good stuff.
 
I'd swear that at some point in my instrument training I was told "established" was within half-scale deflection for VOR's and case break for a LOC/ILS. Reason being that the localizer beam was half as wide as a VOR's. Anyone else heard this?
 
The Fez said:
I'd swear that at some point in my instrument training I was told "established" was within half-scale deflection for VOR's and case break for a LOC/ILS. Reason being that the localizer beam was half as wide as a VOR's. Anyone else heard this?
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That's what I was taught but I use half deflected on the localizer beam as well as the VOR.
 
Well urban dictionary has it as:

"when something or someone is legit.
another way of saying "it's definitely happening."

1. Established we are going to Colorado for the winter.
2. Amy is so established."
 
The Fez said:
I'd swear that at some point in my instrument training I was told "established" was within half-scale deflection for VOR's and case break for a LOC/ILS. Reason being that the localizer beam was half as wide as a VOR's. Anyone else heard this?
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Bookmarked to correct later when I have time. Or you can re-phrase "beam width." ;)

Also, just see post 9.
 
I will call myself "established" whenever it is most convenient for me to have ATC STFU.........if their radar contribution says I am not, then I will hang on until they clear me off.....otherwise, the sooner the better

No offense experienced and qualified ATC brethren, but the 19 year old approach/twr/fasfac dudes around here make me want to gouge my eyes out
 
BobDDuck said:
That's what I was taught but I use half deflected on the localizer beam as well as the VOR.
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Same here. I figure using one rule across all the systems is easier to remember and keeps you from confusing one approach with another and descending into unprotected airspace.
 
Ian J said:
Bookmarked to correct later when I have time. Or you can re-phrase "beam width." ;)

Also, just see post 9.
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I use the ICAO procedures, I was just wondering if anyone else had been taught the whole "beam-width" theory in training...which turns out to be not only wrong procedurally, but as you allude to, focuses on the nav facility's abilities instead of the aircraft instrument's.

It certainly speaks to the power of primacy. My main instrument instructor flew Huey's and OH-6's in 'Nam and quit logging his hours around 12,000...in 1981. He's been training students as a civilian at Rucker full-time since then. When you have been doing or thinking of things one way for 20,000 hours or so, I can see how it'd be hard to change.

In fact, the AF changed their "IFR bible", AFI 11-217v3, to mirror ICAO procedures while I was doing my instrument training at Rucker. I got handed the new reg on Friday and was told to have it down cold for my check ride on Monday. I don't think I ever studied that much in one weekend in all of pilot training. My examiner didn't study, and sat across the table looking up all my answers, so I was only asked about 10 questions before we had to step to fly. Luck comes in strange ways!
 
BobDDuck said:
Second, there are numerous accounts of people driving down the road that runs near there and picking up a hitchhiker in a pilot's uniform who says he has to get to Dulles to work a flight. Invariably (in most of the accounts) somewhere along the way he asks the driver to pull over for a minute and gets out of the car and then disappears. One of the cooler ghost stories out there I think.
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If there are any Dulles based pilots on here that like to do this on their days off, I would recommend being careful. This kind of thing would be all fun and games, until somebody rapes or stabs you.
 
Jafari RastaMan said:
If there are any Dulles based pilots on here that like to do this on their days off, I would recommend being careful. This kind of thing would be all fun and games, until somebody rapes or stabs you.
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Where's your sense of adventure? #YOLO #OneLife #GoBigOrGoHomeBishes
 
Well in the ATC world, our definition of established according to the FAA AOV is:

Within one* mile of depicted localizer on a (legal)** turn to intercept.

*It's been awhile since I was quoted that so it's possible that it's actually within 1/2 mile...my memory is fuzzy. And I can't find the AOV's definition in writing. An instructor quoted it to me. So maybe it's totally different and he gave me bogus info too. So maybe this post is totally useless LOL

**'Legal' is implied. Which is odd because I didn't think the FAA rule books would leave anything to be implied.

Now I'm sure what I'm about to say could spawn a slew of posts about what controllers actually do to you guys sometimes (in a bad way)... but for me personally and most of the people I've worked with, that definition isn't an active/aware part of what we do, it's more of a legal, defined somewhere thing that most people have never heard of. We just get you on the localizer with the rules regarding the wx/apch gate/where you're required to be established (there's that word again! but I think most controllers go by if it looks like your tracking down the localizer you're established) and the turn-on 20 vs 30 degree rule.
 
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