What do you expect?

[eclipse]

Your illustration of the programmer breaks down too easy. GIA is more of an extra year of college, not a buy in to a permanent job. I think the lines are two fuzzy to not call it pay for training.

The whole stereotype of image versus passion is a joke, right? I mean, surely you dont think that the "kids" who early in their career think it is a plus to get 250Turbine are only after image and us "men" who sweat it out keeping our students from putting us into a Vmc Rollover for that amount of time are the real aviation lovers, right?

That to me is the biggest problem with aviation. NOBODY seems to be able to grant the other guy any latitude in path to career.

 

[charlie1017]

Your illustration of the programmer breaks down too easy. GIA is more of an extra year of college

Nope, if anything GIA is analogous to an internship/entry level job, where you usually get paid.

 

[Ian_J]

Your illustration of the programmer breaks down too easy. GIA is more of an extra year of college, not a buy in to a permanent job. I think the lines are two fuzzy to not call it pay for training.

GIA is only like an extra year of college if in that year you teach classes for free while qualified professors are out of work.

 

[MikeOH58]

The whole stereotype of image versus passion is a joke, right? I mean, surely you dont think that the "kids" who early in their career think it is a plus to get 250Turbine are only after image and us "men" who sweat it out keeping our students from putting us into a Vmc Rollover for that amount of time are the real aviation lovers, right?

I do think this program is geared towards hooking part of that "airline pilot" image crowd. It's zero to hero in no time. If you have the money, you get to play airline pilot in a couple months.

I don't think that those who instruct necessarily love aviation more than anyone else, however, I do think they have more of a respect for the career and for themselves as a pilot.

 

[Clocks]

GIA is only like an extra year of college if in that year you teach classes for free while qualified professors are out of work.

And from a customer point of view the classes cost the same amount whether they are taught by "Intern Eric" or a real professor and you aren't told ahead of time what you're going to get.

To so many people the idea of flying a jet is so exciting it's hard to look at it as work.

That is the sentence of the thread right there. My non-pilot friends brush me off if I ever try to explain that. 4:30am van times and 4 hour sits at an outstation don't mean anything to someone who's large aircraft experience is limited to watching Top Gun (or my favorite...a late callout time on reserve so you sleep in, and the next day you have a 5:30am show...good luck falling asleep at 9:30pm). To someone who doesn't know any better and doesn't have experienced people to go through the boring explanation about why PFJ is bad...it's easy to forget that it's not just zipping around in a ERJ dodging missiles and high-fiving Goose...it's your career, and other people's careers, that you're undermining. And some things are more important than you getting 250 hours in a 1900.

Ultimately it's your life, your $25,000, and your career, and there's nothing any of us can do to stop a person who is dedicated to paying to do a job someone else should be doing for a salary. And if they don't mind sitting in front of a couple of CA on a hiring board at some future airline defending their decision to do other pilot's jobs for free...then all I can do is shake my head and wish them the best.

 

[moleman]

So you want an environment where everyone agrees with you? How about instead of a forum there's just a link to the ATP website?

Huh?

You think its cool for ATP's competition to make stuff up about ATP and post it here?

 

[moleman]

Sounds like someone needs the Wambulance.

Give it a rest moleman, or I'm sure the staff here will do it for you.

There were some great things about ATP, sadly they've made their own grave in regards to how they are viewed by the overwhelming professional piloting community. Gulfstream was bad a year, two years, five years, a decade ago. . .it's still bad for the profession and any efforts put forward to improve our collective standing. Just because there has been a marriage with ATP doesn't make the program some spectacular young pilot's wet dream.

Further, many people here have helped countless individuals find their way in this career. No matter what path. That's the overall purpose of this website, to educate and inform.

Many individuals have had information that was clearly incorrect set straight by the members of this very forum. Information that is in relation to multiple schools and companies across this country, not just ATP.

But anyway - the above will fall on deaf ears once again.

Any degradation in ATPs public image as a result of this site was due in large part to its competition making stuff up.

I can't believe you still show your face here.

Have you no shame? You haven't corrected your statements or apologized maybe you should or back up your accusations.

 

[Clocks]

Huh?

You think its cool for ATP's competition to make stuff up about ATP and post it here?

First assuming surreal made something up, how do you equate an airline pilot who went to a different flight school to be ATP's "competition"? Am I Walmart's competition because I shopped at Meijer?

Also a lot of us are former ATP students and instructors and still disagree with you and ATP on the merits of this program.

 

[juxtapilot]

Huh?

You think its cool for ATP's competition to make stuff up about ATP and post it here?

Are you kidding? None of ATP's competition has made stuff up about ATP. I can tell you that as a student (past student at that) in my opinion ATP is going to cause hardship for lots of future pilots through their stupid gulfstream program.

Any degradation in ATPs public image as a result of this site was due in large part to its competition making stuff up.

I can't believe you still show your face here.

Have you no shame? You haven't corrected your statements or apologized maybe you should or back up your accusations.

"Have you no shame?" What are you on? Why should anybody apologize. ATP's brought this on themselves.

I can't believe you still show your face here.

I have way more respect for surreal than I do for some goofball like you spouting off the garbage about how ATP is the saint of all flight schools or whatever you want to say.

 

[surreal1221]

Any degradation in ATPs public image as a result of this site was due in large part to its competition making stuff up.

Okay, which would be understanding if any competition was out there making stuff up.

The fact that you can't seem to wrap your head around is that it was ATP who took out ad space in AOPA's Flight Training magazine that stated they were VA Approved for 141 courses. Which, at the time they were not. Thus, providing false advertising towards the veteran population. Also, it was not another flight school that brought the information the Department of Veteran's Affairs, rather a veteran's advocacy group AND individuals. You though, seem content to place blame on an organization that has had nothing to do with this issue.

Once again, I'm surprised you're so willing to accept that as an acceptable practice.

Nevertheless, that issue has been and was resolved many weeks ago. As much as you'd like to ignore it ever happen, that just won't work. Sorry.

I can't believe you still show your face here.

Well, I suppose you could leave? Then you'd never have to see my "face?" Or, you can grow up and accept what I have said is not an attack on you or ATP, but rather was a successful attempt at correcting false advertising that was directed to veterans.

Have you no shame? You haven't corrected your statements or apologized maybe you should or back up your accusations.

Shame? If protecting veterans from false advertising is something I should feel shameful about that is certainly news to me.

I have no statements to correct nor do I have anything to apologize for. It was ATP who apologized to the Department of Veteran Affair's for providing false advertising.

Once again. . .one more time . . . the issues with ATP offering VA approved 141 courses has been resolved, have been for some time now. If you insist on clinging to your single soapbox, you will continue to fail through your ignorance of the reality.

"Have you no shame?" What are you on? Why should anybody apologize. ATP's brought this on themselves.

Also, these types of issues are not issues that are solely ones that ATP has. Any company that aligns themselves with PFJ/PFJ institutions deal to be subjected to this type of discussion. Also, it's important to note that this latest scheme is not that which moleman is professing such love and enjoyment for. He is also, it appears, supporting the notion that it is sound business practice to utilize false advertising to coax new customers into the business. Such practices are not approved by any sound consumer that I'm aware of and thus are certainly not going to be approved by the large majority of professionals that try to improve the profession.

I have way more respect for surreal than I do for some goofball like you spouting off the garbage about how ATP is the saint of all flight schools or whatever you want to say.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[Malko]

This topic was closed once already and opened up in a new thread. It has now degraded to another pissing match. So yes this will be closed too. IF a certain set of users can't get along the rest of the forum doesn't care/nor need to see it.

There is a PM function that I would suggest making use of it.

Just in case some don't know, there are many other sections to the website. Step out and have a browse.